Election

Dizerner

Well-known member
No, implicit means that though the verb is not explicitly stated, its presence, and more to the point, its meaning is implied, and that strongly or, in the case of a verb, necessarily!

English grammar does have some implicit words, I was trying to think of one, imperative statements are one example.

(You) Go eat all the ice cream!

According to his logic this sentence would have no subject since it is implied.
 

Johnnybgood

Well-known member
The verb in Hebrews 8:6 is estin which is a present active indicative.


Present Tense
The present tense usually denotes continuous kind of action. It shows 'action in progress' or 'a state of persistence.' When used in the indicative mood, the present tense denotes action taking place or going on in the present time.

Game over seth you lose.
@Sethproton i was reading this post which is why I asked the question about the meaning of the verb using that definition. Why do you disagree with this definition?

And just for clarification I am not asking a question about theology but basic understanding of grammar concerning the verb .
 
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Sethproton

Well-known member
And you can’t make a theological point that Jesus is no longer our mediator when 3 different passages say that he is our mediator and not was our mediator. You are doing the same thing that you said we are going . Why are you doing that ?
So you say "and." Is that your way of acknowledging I am right about the missing verb and making a doctrine about the tense of a verb that is not there?
That is at least one step forward.
Now let us go back to a primary argument that I have told you about and referenced a lexicon and sent you to verses in the Bible. What is a mediator? What do the definitions of the Greek word tell us. how do the verses use the word?
Did you look at the verses I sent you to so we could discuss them?
You claim to be interested in scripture, maybe you are. I agree that is where we will find truth
 

Dizerner

Well-known member
I agree that is where we will find truth

Just not the two verses that say Jesus IS our mediator, the "implied is" is the only verse we must study on this subject so we can find a way out!

Make sure you stay away from those other ones that say "IS" as has they have absolutely NO bearing on whether Jesus is a mediator.
 

Johnnybgood

Well-known member
So you say "and." Is that your way of acknowledging I am right about the missing verb and making a doctrine about the tense of a verb that is not there?
That is at least one step forward.
Now let us go back to a primary argument that I have told you about and referenced a lexicon and sent you to verses in the Bible. What is a mediator? What do the definitions of the Greek word tell us. how do the verses use the word?
Did you look at the verses I sent you to so we could discuss them?
You claim to be interested in scripture, maybe you are. I agree that is where we will find truth
You are changing the argument as I want to know about the grammar and what the verb means in Hebrews 8:6. I was not asking about theology but grammar and the present tense verb and what that means. Thank you .
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
And you can’t make a theological point that Jesus is no longer our mediator when 3 different passages say that he is our mediator and not was our mediator. You are doing the same thing that you said we are going . Why are you doing that ?
Notice in his response to you, that he didn't answer your question; but used a tactic I call 'taking the Steering Wheel away from you'. It's like a Driver's Ed car which has steering wheels on both sides of the Car; one for you the Student, and one for him the Teacher. Keeping him 'on task' is a full-time job...
 

Johnnybgood

Well-known member
Notice in his response to you, that he didn't answer your question; but used a tactic I call 'taking the Steering Wheel away from you'. It's like a Driver's Ed car which has steering wheels on both sides of the Car; one for you the Student, and one for him the Teacher. Keeping him 'on task' is a full-time job...
I just do not understand why he keeps on doing this because I want to know about the verb and why he is changing the meaning of the present tense verb in the sentence . I want him to answer the grammar question is all .

Why should I want to talk about the mediator if we cannot agree on the meaning of the verb that modifies the noun ?

It puzzles me and I do not understand why he will not address my simple question.
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
No, implicit means that though the verb is not explicitly stated, its presence, and more to the point, its meaning is implied, and that strongly or, in the case of a verb, necessarily!

You are the one with the agenda, Seth. The man Jesus Christ is our mediator presently, and to deny that is to deny any present remedy to being reconciled with God! My only agenda in this conversation is to persuade you to understanding this truth- for your sake, not mine!

Implicit

ADJECTIVE
implied though not plainly expressed.
"comments seen as implicit criticism of the policies"
synonyms:
implied · indirect · inferred · understood · hinted · [more]
(implicit in)
essentially or very closely connected with; always to be found in.
"the values implicit in the school ethos"
synonyms:
inherent · intrinsic · incorporated · inseparable · inbuilt · [more]
with no qualification or question; absolute.
"an implicit faith in God"
synonyms:
absolute · complete · entire · total · wholehearted · perfect · [more]
mathematics
(of a function) not expressed directly in terms of independent variables.


Doug
The gist of your argument: despite there being no verb in the Greek statement, the verb can be analyzed as to how it is being used.
Now this is different from I what say, that despite the verb missing, the sentence can be analyzed, but no doctrinal points should be made derived from the tense of the non-existent verb.
Also, in other verses where there is a verb present, it looks to me to be expressing an equality, as opposed to a current occurrence or state.

Another note: I communicated that "implicit" meant not literally expressed and your first response is "No."
 
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ReverendRV

Well-known member
I just do not understand why he keeps on doing this because I want to know about the verb and why he is changing the meaning of the present tense verb in the sentence . I want him to answer the grammar question is all .
He's going out of his way to avoid answering you for the reason it would give away the Candy Store...
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
Can you explain what a present tense verb means and how it refers to something in the past, the present or the future ?
I may have responded to this already, but you also may just be asking it again.
A present tense verb in English has a few uses. I doubt I will get them all, but here are three examples and a short description

1. He is walking to work - present tense walking means he is currently or regularly walking to work. By that It could be the answer to two different questions. How is he getting to work these days? or What is he doing at the moment?

2. He is tall - this is a current condition

3. Time is money - this is not an action or a condition. It is a statement about perceived truth and despite there being a present tense verb, it does not indicate something that happens or is happening.

Also, you ask why i am changing the verb. And the answer is there is no verb in the statement we are looking at. How can i change something that does not exist? You have avoided the discussion about these ideas in reference to 1 tim 2:5. because you have refused to answer the issues related to that verse, I have not yet moved on to the other verses where the verb is present. But if I could ever get you to deal with 1 Tim 2:5 I would be happy to move on, Plus I gave you other verses on mediator in preparation for moving on
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
English grammar does have some implicit words, I was trying to think of one, imperative statements are one example.

(You) Go eat all the ice cream!

According to his logic this sentence would have no subject since it is implied.
Yes, and all of us agree on that. Language is fluid and has a variety of ways to express ideas. I assume this is true in all sophisticated languages.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
When the Bible tells the reader to be reconciled, it means, stop being God's enemy

Do you understand the difference between "active" voice and "passive" voice?

Active: "Tom threw the ball" (Tom is the one doing the action).

Passive: "The ball was thrown by Tom" (the ball is not doing the action).
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
I hope that is not the case and what is going on here but it kinda seems that way.
I never dodge questions here. I will always give you a straight answer if you are one who I can see is being honest.
With some posters after a multitude of dishonest and attacking posts, I will change my method.
So far, with you, I am just giving direct answers, looking for honest responses to specifically those questions
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
I never dodge questions here.

You always dodge questions here.

I will always give you a straight answer if you are one who I can see is being honest.
With some posters after a multitude of dishonest and attacking posts, I will change my method.

You accuse ANYONE who asks you questions of being dishonest.
You refuse to answer my questions, or civic's questions.
And now you've accused Johnny of being dishonest, and being a "secret Calvinist".
 
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