Election

Johnnybgood

Well-known member
I gave you a fuller answer, so you can look at that post here. but just to point out, when you ask what a word means and you specify the context, Heb 8:6, it is you who is directing the conversation toward doctrine. If you simply ask what does that Greek verb mean, then it is divorced from doctrine. But as soon as you want to know what it means in context, you are pointing at doctrine.
Still. you should find an answer in the other post i just did
You are skipping the step. The grammar in the sentence should precede doctrine or ideas. I’m asking for first step which is identifying the verb and its meaning in Heb 8:6. Doctrine or ideas follows the grammar it does not precede it . Why are you having such a hard time with this ?
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
There isn’t a verb here…the, “there is” is implicit and understood without it being written! If you expect me to understand your meaning, why don’t you understand Paul’s meaning?

The gist of my argument is presently and actively saying/meaning that the meaning of a passage, be it explicit or implicit, is what we draw theological belief from! Whether the verb is there or not, the meaning of the verb is evident and necessarily present. If I understand what is being said, I can draw conclusions from the statement and correlate that conclusion with other conclusions to establish a overarching principle of belief.

Your argument is self-defeating because you employ the principal you’re seeing to disavow!

Doug
I keep wondering what makes this so difficult for you to understand. You seem to half get it.
Yes, for an English translation the "is" is needed to make the thought coherent in English, but that does not mean you can go back to the Greek and make doctrine based on the verb, when the verb does not exist there.
Again, why is this so hard to grasp?
Now if someone who was a Greek expert in subtle Greek communication, looks at the Greek statement in question and determines it is trying to express that the mediator is doing ongoing mediation, that would be different.
But from the beginning no one has addressed point # 1. What is a mediator, and what did Christ mediate and when?
Many here think the term is interchangeable with intercessor. including you. A mediator is not an intercessor. But like intercessor a mediator is a category of intermediary
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
You are skipping the step. The grammar in the sentence should precede doctrine or ideas. I’m asking for first step which is identifying the verb and its meaning in Heb 8:6. Doctrine or ideas follows the grammar it does not precede it . Why are you having such a hard time with this ?
I guess you refused to go look at the post where I talked about the verb in Heb 8:6 and possible meanings of the verb?
YOu are difficult for me. you ask me to do something then won't look at it. Why do you do that?
 
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ReverendRV

Well-known member
I keep wondering what makes this so difficult for you to understand. You seem to half get it.
Yes, for an English translation the "is" is needed to make the thought coherent in English, but that does not mean you can go back to the Greek and make doctrine based on the verb, when the verb does not exist there.
Again, why is this so hard to grasp?
Now if someone who was a Greek expert in subtle Greek communication, looks at the Greek statement in question and determines it is trying to express that the mediator is ongoing mediation, that would be different.
But from the beginning noone has addressed point # 1. What is a mediator, and what did Christ mediate and when?
Many here think the term is interchangeable with intercessor. including you
Let him have the steering wheel for a while...
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
I’m not able to get a simple answer but a huge paragraph which is not necessary to give the meaning of the verb in Heb 8:6. It shouldn’t be this complicated. It’s frustrating.
Really? If I give you a simple answer you want something more complex. If I give you a paragraph then you want something simple.
I have seen you respond here to post 5 times as long as mine and congratulate them.
I give you one paragraph, and you say it is too long and won't respond to anything in it
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
I’m not able to get a simple answer but a huge paragraph which is not necessary to give the meaning of the verb in Heb 8:6. It shouldn’t be this complicated. It’s frustrating.

That's really funny, considering this poster often refuses to read posts directed at him that are more than one- or two-screens long. "It's too long to read".

Yet he expects others to read HIS lengthy posts.
Go figure.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
have you ever heard the concept of context? Do you know what it means to discuss words in their context?

What Johnny has been trying to explain to you (and you seem to be going out your way to ignore) is that FIRST you determine the general meaning of a term, and only THEN do you go to the text and "tweak" the meaning to fit the context.
 

Johnnybgood

Well-known member
What Johnny has been trying to explain to you (and you seem to be going out your way to ignore) is that FIRST you determine the general meaning of a term, and only THEN do you go to the text and "tweak" the meaning to fit the context.
Yes you said it better than I did .
 

Johnnybgood

Well-known member
No, it has been so many posts back now, I'd have a hard time finding it. But if you want to start again, tell me exactly what you want to talk about concerning Heb 8:6 and I will start over for you
The meaning of the verb estin. Is it a past , present or future ?
 
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