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TomFL
Guest
He purpose is to gather men who believe in Christ
Not put men in Christ unconditionally
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Not put men in Christ unconditionally
brightfame52
Well-known member
The were Chosen in Christ Jesus before the foundation of the world unconditionally. That is because they didn't physically exist yet.He purpose is to gather men who believe in Christ
Not put men in Christ unconditionally
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TomFL
Guest
Sorry the bible says nothing about unconditionalityThe were Chosen in Christ Jesus before the foundation of the world unconditionally. That is because they didn't physically exist yet.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Yes they are chosen in Christ Jesus before the foundation of the world when they did not exist physically. Eph 1 4Sorry the bible says nothing about unconditionality
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TomFL
Guest
NoYes they are chosen in Christ Jesus before the foundation of the world when they did not exist physically. Eph 1 4
that is a mere assumption
You cannot point to a single verse which states men are saved unconditionally
brightfame52
Well-known member
Yes they were Chosen in Christ Jesus before the foundation of the world Eph 1 4. That is before they physically existed.No
that is a mere assumption
You cannot point to a single verse which states men are saved unconditionally
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TomFL
Guest
Still your assumptionYes they were Chosen in Christ Jesus before the foundation of the world Eph 1 4. That is before they physically existed.
You cannot point to a single verse which states men are saved unconditionally
You leave out half the Scriptures.They existed in eternity in Christ in God's eternal purpose. They didn't exist physically on Earth before the foundation Eph 1 4
God mentions Libertarian will (ie *because*) right in the passage on predestination.
Rom 9:30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
Rom 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
Rom 9:32 Wherefore [ie Why]? **Because** they sought it not by **faith**, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
The conclusion that reconciles Scriptures is that before they existed, God had predetermined a history to bring out Libertatrian faith.
You are thus wrong.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Eph 1 4 is not a assumption. And no one had physical being at that time. No boasting here!Still your assumption
You cannot point to a single verse which states men are saved unconditionally
The conclusion that reconciles with other Scriptures is that God in Eph 1:4 is referring to the already Libertarianly saved that were found to be chosen from before the foundation of the world.Eph 1 4 is not a assumption. And no one had physical being at that time. No boasting here!
You leave out half the Scriptures and deny God's capability for both predetermination and Libertarian faith.
Rom 9:32 Wherefore? **Because** they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
Libertarians didn't exist back then either.Eph 1 4 is not a assumption. And no one had physical being at that time. No boasting here!
You deny God's ability and half of the Scriptures.
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TomFL
Guest
Eph 1:4 does not mention unconditionalityEph 1 4 is not a assumption. And no one had physical being at that time. No boasting here!
It mentions being in Christ that is a condition
brightfame52
Well-known member
They were Chosen before the foundation of the world. They had no physical life and being.The conclusion that reconciles with other Scriptures is that God in Eph 1:4 is referring to the already Libertarianly saved that were found to be chosen from before the foundation of the world.
You leave out half the Scriptures and deny God's capability for both predetermination and Libertarian faith.
Rom 9:32 Wherefore? **Because** they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
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TomFL
Guest
They were separated from ChristThey were Chosen before the foundation of the world. They had no physical life and being.
did they lose him ?
Eph. 2:12 —NASB
“remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.”
brightfame52
Well-known member
Election in Christ Jesus was before the foundation of the world and so it was unconditional.They were separated from Christ
did they lose him ?
Eph. 2:12 —NASB
“remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.”
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TomFL
Guest
So they got lost ?Election in Christ Jesus was before the foundation of the world and so it was unconditional.
They were separated from Christ
Eph. 2:12 —NASB
“remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.”
did they wander away before they were born ?o
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They were Libertarianly chosen before they existed.They were Chosen before the foundation of the world. They had no physical life and being.
What about the half of Scriptures you leave out?
brightfame52
Well-known member
All the elect are born lost dead in trespasses and sins. You don't know that? Nevertheless they were Chosen in Christ Jesus before the foundation of the world Eph 1 4So they got lost ?
They were separated from Christ
Eph. 2:12 —NASB
“remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.”
did they wander away before they were born ?o
Yes, but Libertarianly. You leave out half the Scriptures.All the elect are born lost dead in trespasses and sins. You don't know that? Nevertheless they were Chosen in Christ Jesus before the foundation of the world Eph 1 4
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TomFL
Guest
So how did they get lost ?All the elect are born lost dead in trespasses and sins. You don't know that? Nevertheless they were Chosen in Christ Jesus before the foundation of the world Eph 1 4
Did they wander away ?
did someone leave the gate open ?
Eph. 2:12 —NASB
“remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.”