Election

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TomFL

Guest
They existed in eternity in Christ in God's eternal purpose. They didn't exist physically on Earth before the foundation Eph 1 4
He purpose is to gather men who believe in Christ

Not put men in Christ unconditionally
 
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TomFL

Guest
Yes they are chosen in Christ Jesus before the foundation of the world when they did not exist physically. Eph 1 4
No

that is a mere assumption

You cannot point to a single verse which states men are saved unconditionally
 
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TomFL

Guest
Yes they were Chosen in Christ Jesus before the foundation of the world Eph 1 4. That is before they physically existed.
Still your assumption

You cannot point to a single verse which states men are saved unconditionally
 

Kampioen

Well-known member
They existed in eternity in Christ in God's eternal purpose. They didn't exist physically on Earth before the foundation Eph 1 4
You leave out half the Scriptures.

God mentions Libertarian will (ie *because*) right in the passage on predestination.

Rom 9:30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

Rom 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

Rom 9:32 Wherefore [ie Why]? **Because** they sought it not by **faith**, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

The conclusion that reconciles Scriptures is that before they existed, God had predetermined a history to bring out Libertatrian faith.

You are thus wrong.
 

Kampioen

Well-known member
Eph 1 4 is not a assumption. And no one had physical being at that time. No boasting here!
The conclusion that reconciles with other Scriptures is that God in Eph 1:4 is referring to the already Libertarianly saved that were found to be chosen from before the foundation of the world.

You leave out half the Scriptures and deny God's capability for both predetermination and Libertarian faith.

Rom 9:32 Wherefore? **Because** they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
The conclusion that reconciles with other Scriptures is that God in Eph 1:4 is referring to the already Libertarianly saved that were found to be chosen from before the foundation of the world.

You leave out half the Scriptures and deny God's capability for both predetermination and Libertarian faith.

Rom 9:32 Wherefore? **Because** they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
They were Chosen before the foundation of the world. They had no physical life and being.
 
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TomFL

Guest
They were Chosen before the foundation of the world. They had no physical life and being.
They were separated from Christ

did they lose him ?

Eph. 2:12 —NASB
“remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.”
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
They were separated from Christ

did they lose him ?

Eph. 2:12 —NASB
“remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.”
Election in Christ Jesus was before the foundation of the world and so it was unconditional.
 
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TomFL

Guest
Election in Christ Jesus was before the foundation of the world and so it was unconditional.
So they got lost ?

They were separated from Christ

Eph. 2:12 —NASB
“remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.”

did they wander away before they were born ?o
 
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brightfame52

Well-known member
So they got lost ?

They were separated from Christ

Eph. 2:12 —NASB
“remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.”

did they wander away before they were born ?o
All the elect are born lost dead in trespasses and sins. You don't know that? Nevertheless they were Chosen in Christ Jesus before the foundation of the world Eph 1 4
 
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TomFL

Guest
All the elect are born lost dead in trespasses and sins. You don't know that? Nevertheless they were Chosen in Christ Jesus before the foundation of the world Eph 1 4
So how did they get lost ?

Did they wander away ?

did someone leave the gate open ?

Eph. 2:12 —NASB
“remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.”
 
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