Ellen's TBI and the subsequent behaviors

John t

Super Member
History records to us that early on in Acts, the Christians went to meeting now on Sunday, as that was the day recorded down by all of the early Church fathers as the time they gathered and met!

Questions for y'all.
  1. What mandatory feast were the disciples celebrating?
  2. What was the unexpected event?
  3. How many days after the last Sabbath during Passover did this event happen?
  4. When was this feast mandated?
  5. On what day of the week is the Sabbath of the Jews?

You see the Feast of Pentecost happens 50 days after the last Sabbath in the 8 days of Passover. Pentecost is on a Sunday. Since Holy Spirit came to the Disciples on that day, this day is the "Birthday of the Church".

Using any calendar, and counting forward from the last Sabbath in Passover you will find that the 50th day always falls upon Sunday. Therefore it was Moses, the Lawgiver, who wrote the instructions from God for Pentecost c 1200 BC.

That is why Christians (which I exclude SDAs) uniformly worship on Sunday. Is that just a coincidence? Hardly so!
 

John t

Super Member
Do you have ANY evidence that Gentiles kept and observed the sabbath in churches at end of Acts forward?

Since the Disciples and Apostles were all observant Jews, it stands to reason that they did practice some Jewish customs In Acts 14-16, we can see some of the struggles they had, especially Peter when he had his vision.

But that is not the answer to your question. By definition, Gentiles would not be as familiar with OT customs as observant Jews. There are no verses in the NT that mandate any particular day of the week to worship, so your question is attempting to falsely state that worship must be on such a day. Logically, it is impossible because your question is attempting to create a positive (the proscribed day for worship from a negative position, meaning the absence of evidence.

Yet, that is exactly what the Sabbatarian churches do; and they are wrong to do it.
 

YeshuaFan

Well-known member
Since the Disciples and Apostles were all observant Jews, it stands to reason that they did practice some Jewish customs In Acts 14-16, we can see some of the struggles they had, especially Peter when he had his vision.

But that is not the answer to your question. By definition, Gentiles would not be as familiar with OT customs as observant Jews. There are no verses in the NT that mandate any particular day of the week to worship, so your question is attempting to falsely state that worship must be on such a day. Logically, it is impossible because your question is attempting to create a positive (the proscribed day for worship from a negative position, meaning the absence of evidence.

Yet, that is exactly what the Sabbatarian churches do; and they are wrong to do it.
My point is that while the jewish believers ikn jesus continue to meet in the temple awhile, the gentiles never were said to be under any command in Acts to gather on saturday Sabbath, and that later on in the book, both jews and gentiles were onservinf Sunday, the Lords day.
Which is references by many of the early Church fathers as the Church knew the resurrection of jesus brough and ushered in now the new Covenant, and noe the Church no longer bound to the Sa
Questions for y'all.
  1. What mandatory feast were the disciples celebrating?
  2. What was the unexpected event?
  3. How many days after the last Sabbath during Passover did this event happen?
  4. When was this feast mandated?
  5. On what day of the week is the Sabbath of the Jews?

You see the Feast of Pentecost happens 50 days after the last Sabbath in the 8 days of Passover. Pentecost is on a Sunday. Since Holy Spirit came to the Disciples on that day, this day is the "Birthday of the Church".

Using any calendar, and counting forward from the last Sabbath in Passover you will find that the 50th day always falls upon Sunday. Therefore it was Moses, the Lawgiver, who wrote the instructions from God for Pentecost c 1200 BC.

That is why Christians (which I exclude SDAs) uniformly worship on Sunday. Is that just a coincidence? Hardly so!
There was a new relationship between God and Man established by the death and resurrection of the Lord jesus, and Sunday was the Lords day, when the early Church gathered to celebrate that new Covenant made now with God!
 

John t

Super Member
My point is that while the jewish believers ikn jesus continue to meet in the temple awhile, the gentiles never were said to be under any command in Acts to gather on saturday Sabbath, and that later on in the book, both jews and gentiles were onservinf Sunday, the Lords day

Which is references by many of the early Church fathers as the Church knew the resurrection of jesus brough and ushered in now the new Covenant, and noe the Church no longer bound to the Sa

Let's get real about a few things:

FIRST is the fact that both of us are presenting speculation based upon an absence of evidence in the NT, particularly Acts..
SECOND is the fact that the day of worship switched from Saturday to Sunday. I could reference stuff from the ante-Nicene Church Fathers, but that would be extrapolating something that is not specifically mentioned.

THEREFORE, both of us are really guessing.

There was a new relationship between God and Man established by the death and resurrection of the Lord jesus, and Sunday was the Lords day, when the early Church gathered to celebrate that new Covenant made now with God!
Without any snark, I believe your focus on the covenant relationship between God and man may be correct, but I am not sure that that idea was fully fleshed out until later in church history. Thus your explanation may anachronistic, meaning out of time and place. By that, I believe that you may be focusing on the Reformers, and not Acts 2.

On the other hand, my explanation was in the realm of practical experience, and not theological. My explanation is rooted in Acts 2 during the mandatory feast of Pentecost. It was not bt chance that Holy Spirit gave birth to the church that day, and that the Disciples, being observant Jews were following the practices laid out in the OT on that day.

Nevertheless, our differences are rather insignificant, not anything to "fight about it" ;)
 

YeshuaFan

Well-known member
Let's get real about a few things:

FIRST is the fact that both of us are presenting speculation based upon an absence of evidence in the NT, particularly Acts..
SECOND is the fact that the day of worship switched from Saturday to Sunday. I could reference stuff from the ante-Nicene Church Fathers, but that would be extrapolating something that is not specifically mentioned.

THEREFORE, both of us are really guessing.


Without any snark, I believe your focus on the covenant relationship between God and man may be correct, but I am not sure that that idea was fully fleshed out until later in church history. Thus your explanation may anachronistic, meaning out of time and place. By that, I believe that you may be focusing on the Reformers, and not Acts 2.

On the other hand, my explanation was in the realm of practical experience, and not theological. My explanation is rooted in Acts 2 during the mandatory feast of Pentecost. It was not bt chance that Holy Spirit gave birth to the church that day, and that the Disciples, being observant Jews were following the practices laid out in the OT on that day.

Nevertheless, our differences are rather insignificant, not anything to "fight about it" ;)
We both would agree then that the Church did move from the sabbath of israel to now met and worship on Sunday, the Lords day? Changed not by a pope, nor much later, but in lifetimes of the Apostles?
 

John t

Super Member
We both would agree then that the Church did move from the sabbath of Israel to now met and worship on Sunday, the Lords day? Changed not by a pope, nor much later, but in lifetimes of the Apostles?
YES!

This is the way I love to argue. Two people respectfully state their positions, and have no animus about the "trivial consequences"

The idea of a Bishop of Rome being a authority for the whole church is an anachronism, out of time and space. If Acts is read carefully, you will see that Apostle Peter essentially was a judiazer, and that Apostle Paul was not
 

YeshuaFan

Well-known member
YES!

This is the way I love to argue. Two people respectfully state their positions, and have no animus about the "trivial consequences"

The idea of a Bishop of Rome being a authority for the whole church is an anachronism, out of time and space. If Acts is read carefully, you will see that Apostle Peter essentially was a judiazer, and that Apostle Paul was not
Interesting to me is that the "Pope" peter sames to say that he was the one over the jews, while paul would be the "Pope" over gentiles, and james seem to be the one in Jersusalem itself!
 

JonHawk

Active member
AV 1C 1:12-13 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. 13 Is Christ divided?

The problem is really, if GOD really talked to ALL of them, why are they not ALL equal, because GOD is the same for ALL messengers, Right ???
That's not the problem it's the solution.

SDAchristian:
AV Ac 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by [that] man whom he hath ordained; [whereof] he hath given assurance unto all [men], in that he hath raised him from the dead.

Jon:
For you are all one in Christ Jesus. If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
 

JonHawk

Active member
God raised up His Servant Jesus first, and sent Him to bless you by turning every one of you from iniquity. Acts 3:26
EGW has some good company !!!

In my opinion, many will judge GOD, by whom GOD uses, and not by the message given to the messenger, Right ???
I did not send these prophets, yet they have run with their message;
I did not speak to them, But they prophesied.
If they had stood in My council, Then they would have announced My message to My people,
And would have turned them from iniquity. Jer 23

You know the word which He sent to the sons of Israel, preaching peace through Jesus Christ (He is Lord of all)...

All the prophets testify of Him, that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.”

While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were heard the message. Acts 10:36-44
 

YeshuaFan

Well-known member
God raised up His Servant Jesus first, and sent Him to bless you by turning every one of you from iniquity. Acts 3:26

I did not send these prophets, yet they have run with their message;
I did not speak to them, But they prophesied.
If they had stood in My council, Then they would have announced My message to My people,
And would have turned them from iniquity. Jer 23

You know the word which He sent to the sons of Israel, preaching peace through Jesus Christ (He is Lord of all)...

All the prophets testify of Him, that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.”

While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were heard the message. Acts 10:36-44
Last Apostle and Prophet of God was John, not Joseph Smith. Ellen White, pastor Russell etc!
 

JonHawk

Active member
Last Apostle and Prophet of God was John, not Joseph Smith. Ellen White, pastor Russell etc!
Beginning from the baptism of John to that day when He was taken up from us, one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection.
 

JonHawk

Active member
And you have tested those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars; Rev 2:2

Apostle and Prophet of God was John, not Joseph Smith. Ellen White, pastor Russell etc!
10 He who believes in the Son of God has the witness in himself; he who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed the testimony that God has given of His Son. 11 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 1 John 5
 

Formersda

Active member
And you have tested those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars; Rev 2:2


10 He who believes in the Son of God has the witness in himself; he who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed the testimony that God has given of His Son. 11 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 1 John 5
Would I lose my salvation by following what the scriptures say about Jesus and what He requires of us?

Would I lose my salvation by following a prophet who is not canonical?

Out of all the “prophets” that rose up in the 1800’s which one is real? Is Joseph Smith a true prophet? What makes EGW a true prophet?

I will risk my salivation by following a prophet who is not in the bible, if EGW turns out to be a false prophet and I followed her and not what is clearly written in the bible I’d go to hell. So excuse me and others for following the bible and bible alone for guidance. I don’t need a lesser light to lead me to the greater Light with a load of proof texts. Jesus is the Light and I follow Him and Him only. The Holy Spirit is the One who illumines scripture not EGW or Joseph Smith.
 

Common Tater

Active member
Would I lose my salvation by following what the scriptures say about Jesus and what He requires of us?

Would I lose my salvation by following a prophet who is not canonical?

Out of all the “prophets” that rose up in the 1800’s which one is real? Is Joseph Smith a true prophet? What makes EGW a true prophet?

I will risk my salivation by following a prophet who is not in the bible, if EGW turns out to be a false prophet and I followed her and not what is clearly written in the bible I’d go to hell. So excuse me and others for following the bible and bible alone for guidance. I don’t need a lesser light to lead me to the greater Light with a load of proof texts. Jesus is the Light and I follow Him and Him only. The Holy Spirit is the One who illumines scripture not EGW or Joseph Smith.
The lesser light thing amuses me. It's like believing you need to take a flashlight outside and point it up at the sky in order to see the sun.
 

JonHawk

Active member
JonHawk said:

10 He who believes in the Son of God has the witness in himself; he who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed the testimony that God has given of His Son. 11 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 1 John 5

Would I lose my salvation by following... a prophet who is not in the bible, if EGW turns out to be a false prophet and I followed her and not what is clearly written in the bible I’d go to hell.
They will bear their guilt—the prophet will be as guilty as the one who consults [her]. (Ezekiel 14:10)

So excuse me and others for following the bible and bible alone for guidance. I don’t need a lesser light to lead me to the greater Light with a load of proof texts. Jesus is the Light and I follow Him and Him only. The Holy Spirit is the One who illumines scripture not EGW or Joseph Smith.

But the prophet who prophesies peace will be recognized as one truly sent by the Lord...(Jeremiah 28:9)

For He himself is our peace...
For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.
Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household,
built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. (Eph 2:14-20)

For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints. (1 Corinthians 14:32-33)
 

YeshuaFan

Well-known member
Would I lose my salvation by following what the scriptures say about Jesus and what He requires of us?

Would I lose my salvation by following a prophet who is not canonical?

Out of all the “prophets” that rose up in the 1800’s which one is real? Is Joseph Smith a true prophet? What makes EGW a true prophet?

I will risk my salivation by following a prophet who is not in the bible, if EGW turns out to be a false prophet and I followed her and not what is clearly written in the bible I’d go to hell. So excuse me and others for following the bible and bible alone for guidance. I don’t need a lesser light to lead me to the greater Light with a load of proof texts. Jesus is the Light and I follow Him and Him only. The Holy Spirit is the One who illumines scripture not EGW or Joseph Smith.
In the JW/Mormons/Sda. their founders replaced Lord Jesus Himself, as what they taught and wrote supersedes the scriptures!
 

YeshuaFan

Well-known member
The lesser light thing amuses me. It's like believing you need to take a flashlight outside and point it up at the sky in order to see the sun.
well. "pastor " Russell did write that if any one followed and applied his commentaries would stay in the light, but just using ther Bible would bring spiritual darkness within 2 years!
 

Formersda

Active member
well. "pastor " Russell did write that if any one followed and applied his commentaries would stay in the light, but just using ther Bible would bring spiritual darkness within 2 years!
Are you serious Russell said that? 😯 there are some shocking heresies out there. What on earth?
 

JonHawk

Active member
Jon:
For He himself is our peace...
For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.
Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household,
built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. (Eph 2:14-20)

the JW/Mormons/Sda. their founders replaced Lord Jesus Himself, as what they taught and wrote supersedes the scriptures!
“I am the Light of the world. He who follows Me will not walk in the darkness, but will have the Light of life.”

He has the power to bestow life, and this new life is the Light of men.
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
The lesser light thing amuses me. It's like believing you need to take a flashlight outside and point it up at the sky in order to see the sun.
AV Gn 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: [he made] the stars also.

Because they live in spiritual darkness ???

Son rise is coming, and we will see who(like Moses) shines with Jesus.

Yours in Christ, Michael
 
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