Elohim: is it plural

Open Heart

Open Heart

Well-known member
Christians often try to use the argument that Elohim is plural in their attempt to prove the Trinity.

But it is just not true. While it is true that the addition of yod mem ("im") to a word can make it plural, it does not follow that every word with a yod mem at the end is automatically a plural.

I draw your attention to Exodus 7:1
The Lord said to Moses, "See! I have made you a lord over Pharaoh, and Aaron, your brother, will be your speaker.אוַיֹּ֤אמֶר יְהֹוָה֙ אֶל־משֶׁ֔ה רְאֵ֛ה נְתַתִּ֥יךָ אֱלֹהִ֖ים לְפַרְעֹ֑ה וְאַֽהֲרֹ֥ן אָחִ֖יךָ יִֽהְיֶ֥ה נְבִיאֶֽךָ:
The word "lord" (sometimes translated as judge or god) is elohim in Hebrew. You can spot it on the right as אֱלֹהִ֖ים

Now, is Moses plural? No, he is one person.


So in conclusion, the word elohim can be either a plural or a singular depending on the context of the sentence. It does NOT automatically imply plurality.
 
Yes but some parts says Elohim and other Elohay. It is plural remember he ahs A rela name Yawheh and Jehova is not he's real name.
 
Arikel88 said:
Yes but some parts says Elohim and other Elohay. It is plural remember he ahs A rela name Yawheh and Jehova is not he's real name.
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I realize that not everyone reads Hebrew, but I can assure you that the quote above reads Elohim, and not Elohey.

I realize that Elohim is not God's name.
 
Elohim is plural, Elohay is singular okay that's all. I've been thru the whole name of God thing and know their si more. He's name is hidden in psalms supposedly by scribes but still cannot be verify. Psalms says he's anme is high stron tower.

biblehub.com

Proverbs 18:10 - The Selfishness of the Unfriendly

The name of the LORD is a strong tower; the righteous run to it and are safe.
biblehub.com

closest will come to his name.
 
Arikel88 said:
Elohim is plural, Elohay is singular okay that's all. I've been thru the whole name of God thing and know their si more. He's name is hidden in psalms supposedly by scribes but still cannot be verify. Psalms says he's anme is high stron tower.

biblehub.com

Proverbs 18:10 - The Selfishness of the Unfriendly

The name of the LORD is a strong tower; the righteous run to it and are safe.
biblehub.com

closest will come to his name.
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In the opening post, I gave a very very clear example of elohim being used as a singular noun. Do you want to reply to my example, or would you like to continue pretending I didn't give it?
 
Open Heart said:
So in conclusion, the word elohim can be either a plural or a singular depending on the context of the sentence. It does NOT automatically imply plurality.
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so does not prove your view of singularity either and
Jesus believers may refer to the one true God in singular or plural ways - as does the Hebrew Bible (?)
 
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American Gothic said:
so does not prove your view of singularity either and
Jesus believers may refer to the one true God in singular or plural ways - as does the Hebrew Bible (?)
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I'm not following you. The purpose of the thread is to document that elohim can at times be used as a singular. I gave one such example that we would all agree upon. Where does your difficulty in that lie?
 
Open Heart said:
I'm not following you. The purpose of the thread is to document that elohim can at times be used as a singular. I gave one such example that we would all agree upon. Where does your difficulty in that lie?
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wooptie doo
there is one God and that God is One - is that statement True, and somehow proved by your example(s)?
explain...
 
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American Gothic said:
wooptie doo
there is one God and that God is One - is that statement True, and somehow proved by your example(s)?
explain...
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That was not what I was trying to prove. Again, what I documented was that the word elohim is NOT ALWAYS A PLURAL. Please limit your comments to the point in question. Thanks.
 
Guys, guys, guys G-d name is secret he told us before the flood his name but becase we descrate it. We lost the pronunication of it. We do not know he's real name that the truth be told antoher forum A brother said also Elohim is used in plural form and singular form when adressing God in the bible regarding about the name but really.

We are arguing to talk about elohay and elohim when its not his name so were just arguin Jehova, elohim, and yahweh is Gods none of his real names so were just arguin for somethign wrong. Really if we knew his name it would be right to agree if it was in plural form or in singular in that way instead were arguin if superman name is clark kent or clark kents but we know it's Kalel. God has he's real name we do not know it.
 
Arikel88 said:
Guys, guys, guys G-d name is secret he told us before the flood his name but becase we descrate it. We lost the pronunication of it. We do not know he's real name that the truth be told antoher forum A brother said also Elohim is used in plural form and singular form when adressing God in the bible regarding about the name but really.

We are arguing to talk about elohay and elohim when its not his name so were just arguin Jehova, elohim, and yahweh is Gods none of his real names so were just arguin for somethign wrong. Really if we knew his name it would be right to agree if it was in plural form or in singular in that way instead were arguin if superman name is clark kent or clark kents but we know it's Kalel. God has he's real name we do not know it.
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This thread is not for the discussion of God's name. Thanks.
 
American Gothic said:

some stuff some Jesus believers might say on this subject

of course, when Jesus believer activity is positive, it should be celebrated as "Christian" activity
and when negative, only discussed as the actions of rogue individuals or sub-groups - if it is discussed at all
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I'm not interested in your link. If I wanted to surf the web, I would.

Do you have any response to my example of a time when elohim was CLEARLY used to indicate a singular? (Moses)
 
Open Heart said:
Christians often try to use the argument that Elohim is plural in their attempt to prove the Trinity.

But it is just not true. While it is true that the addition of yod mem ("im") to a word can make it plural, it does not follow that every word with a yod mem at the end is automatically a plural.

I draw your attention to Exodus 7:1
The Lord said to Moses, "See! I have made you a lord over Pharaoh, and Aaron, your brother, will be your speaker.אוַיֹּ֤אמֶר יְהֹוָה֙ אֶל־משֶׁ֔ה רְאֵ֛ה נְתַתִּ֥יךָ אֱלֹהִ֖ים לְפַרְעֹ֑ה וְאַֽהֲרֹ֥ן אָחִ֖יךָ יִֽהְיֶ֥ה נְבִיאֶֽךָ:
The word "lord" (sometimes translated as judge or god) is elohim in Hebrew. You can spot it on the right as אֱלֹהִ֖ים

Now, is Moses plural? No, he is one person.


So in conclusion, the word elohim can be either a plural or a singular depending on the context of the sentence. It does NOT automatically imply plurality.
Click to expand...
Yep. You're correct. I've posted the following several times in these forums.

These words were from Dr. Heiser, from Logos Bible Software, who is an acknowledged language expert by Christians. I put them here again for people to read.

_____________________________

To illustrate, consider words in English such as:
"deer", "sheep", "fish" - the point is you need other words to help you tell if one or more than one of these animals is meant. Sometimes these other words are verbs that help you tell. Compare the two examples::

1) "The sheep is lost" - the word "is" is a singular verb (It goes with a singular subject; one wouldn't say, for example, "I are lost" - you would use a verb that goes with the singular subject ("I am lost").

2) "The sheep are lost" - the word "are" is a plural verb (again, another word next to our noun "sheep" tells us in this case that plural sheep are meant.

All of this is just basic grammar - and every language has grammar. Biblical Hebrew has its own ways of telling us if elohim means ONE person or many gods. It matches the noun elohim to singular or plural verbs, or with singular or plural pronouns (to use "sheep" again as an example:
"Those sheep are white"). The word "those" is what's called a demonstrative pronoun - it automatically tells us that sheep in this sentence is meant to be understood as a plural.

_______________________

Now, if you apply Heiser's words/rules to God's name, YHWH, which is singular, and used in context with the term elohim, then there can be no excuse for thinking the God of Israel is a plurality. Here's a link to an example using YHWH, https://biblehub.com/text/1_kings/19-11.htm.
 
Jewjitzu said:
These words were from Dr. Heiser, from Logos Bible Software, who is an acknowledged language expert by Christians. I put them here again for people to read.
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please, let's refrain from treating my people as monolithic in outlook and actions
we are the World's most persecuted faith/religious community

Now, if you apply Heiser's words/rules to God's name, YHWH, which is singular, and used in context with the term elohim, then there can be no excuse for thinking the God of Israel is a plurality
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does God have a son?
 
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