Eph 2 and Justification.

Yes, without a revelation given by God that opens their hearts and minds to understanding, they cannot believe.

Don't twist that which I believe to fit your narrative.

You deny a personal revelation to your own peril.
We see in Acts where the gospel is preached that some are cut to the heart upon hearing while others mock.
Revelation is indeed needed, however faith/belief does not require one first be regenerated

Luke 8:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
 
Revelation is indeed needed, however faith/belief does not require one first be regenerated

Luke 8:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
Receiving the word without understanding is meaningless. No matter how much joy you have.

Without God opening the heart and mind to understanding, human wisdom cannot save.
In fact, scripture is clear that God hides the truth from the wise and understanding.

You promote that the wise and understanding are able to discern the truth and by their understanding and wisdom they come to believe and are subsequently saved.

You teach the exact opposite of that taught by Jesus!
 
Receiving the word without understanding is meaningless. No matter how much joy you have.

Without God opening the heart and mind to understanding, human wisdom cannot save.
In fact, scripture is clear that God hides the truth from the wise and understanding.

You promote that the wise and understanding are able to discern the truth and by their understanding and wisdom they come to believe and are subsequently saved.

You teach the exact opposite of that taught by Jesus!
Newsflash if they believed it they understood it

Luke 8:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

You have no idea what you are talking about.
 
Newsflash if they believed it they understood it
Not at all.

Lots of people believe lots of things about Christianity yet understands nothing about the truths contained in the gospel.

That should not be a newsflash for you? Or are you really in capable of acknowledging such?
 
Not at all.

Lots of people believe lots of things about Christianity yet understands nothing about the truths contained in the gospel.

That should not be a newsflash for you? Or are you really in capable of acknowledging such?
Sorry but if they believe the word of the God they understand the word of the God

The same word others heard and were saved by

Luke 8:11–15 (ESV) — 11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 The ones along the path are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved. 13 And the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy. But these have no root; they believe for a while, and in time of testing fall away. 14 And as for what fell among the thorns, they are those who hear, but as they go on their way they are choked by the cares and riches and pleasures of life, and their fruit does not mature. 15 As for that in the good soil, they are those who, hearing the word, hold it fast in an honest and good heart, and bear fruit with patience.
 
Sorry but if they believe the word of the God they understand the word of the God
Not true.
Have you heard of the chaff?
The same word others heard and were saved by

Luke 8:11–15 (ESV) — 11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 The ones along the path are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved. 13 And the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy. But these have no root; they believe for a while, and in time of testing fall away. 14 And as for what fell among the thorns, they are those who hear, but as they go on their way they are choked by the cares and riches and pleasures of life, and their fruit does not mature. 15 As for that in the good soil, they are those who, hearing the word, hold it fast in an honest and good heart, and bear fruit with patience.
 
Not true.
Have you heard of the cha

the text

Luke 8:13 (ESV) — 13 And the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy. But these have no root; they believe for a while, and in time of testing fall away.

You can't believe a word you did not understand
 
the text

Luke 8:13 (ESV) — 13 And the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy. But these have no root; they believe for a while, and in time of testing fall away.

You can't believe a word you did not understand
Of course you can:
Mat 13:22 As for what was sown among thorns, this is the one who hears the word, but the cares of the world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and it proves unfruitful.
Mat 13:23 As for what was sown on good soil, this is the one who hears the word and understands it. He indeed bears fruit and yields, in one case a hundredfold, in another sixty, and in another thirty.”


Do you believe that cultists understand the word, or do they believe another word that is different to what the word means.

You are so caught up in your self you are no longer able to discern reality from what you make up in your mind to defend your false teachings.
There is only one group described in the parable with understanding Tom. You keep contradicting Jesus and cannot be corrected.
 
Of course you can:
Mat 13:22 As for what was sown among thorns, this is the one who hears the word, but the cares of the world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and it proves unfruitful.
Mat 13:23 As for what was sown on good soil, this is the one who hears the word and understands it. He indeed bears fruit and yields, in one case a hundredfold, in another sixty, and in another thirty.”


Do you believe that cultists understand the word, or do they believe another word that is different to what the word means.

You are so caught up in your self you are no longer able to discern reality from what you make up in your mind to defend your false teachings.
There is only one group described in the parable with understanding Tom. You keep contradicting Jesus and cannot be corrected.
Sorry no you cannot

Luke 8:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

These believed

One cannot believe what they do not understand

Think otherwise, post a verse which states one may believe the word of God but not understand it

You can't do it.

Your theology insists the unregenerate cannot believe, yet these did

How are you going to escape that?

You are so caught up in your Gnostic inspired theology you refuse to believe the very words of God

A number of your peers have agreed that unregenerate men are to understand the gospel

Both Matt Slick and JD Martin in various debates admitted as much. Even here some have

The difference between these two groups is here

Luke 8:15 (KJV 1900) — 15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

Not in ability to understand the words

Finally and most importantly , if you had checked the context you would have found this

Matthew 13:18–19 (ESV) — 18 “Hear then the parable of the sower: 19 When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart. This is what was sown along the path.

That is the only group mentioned not understanding the word and the devil snatches the seed away

They do not believe
 
One cannot believe what they do not understand
If you have the incorrect understanding, then your belief is incorrect.

It is not difficult to comprehend except if you are merely interested in trolling.

You can believe anything with an incorrect understanding of the Spiritual truth and think you are right.
You display that here every day Tom.
 
If you have the incorrect understanding, then your belief is incorrect.

It is not difficult to comprehend except if you are merely interested in trolling.

You can believe anything with an incorrect understanding of the Spiritual truth and think you are right.
You display that here every day Tom.
Then you are not believing the thing that was stated but something else

In any case scripture refuted you

Matthew 13:18–19 (ESV) — 18 “Hear then the parable of the sower: 19 When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart. This is what was sown along the path.

That is the only group mentioned not understanding the word and the devil snatches the seed away

They do not believe
 
Then you are not believing the thing that was stated but something else

In any case scripture refuted you

Matthew 13:18–19 (ESV) — 18 “Hear then the parable of the sower: 19 When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart. This is what was sown along the path.

That is the only group mentioned not understanding the word and the devil snatches the seed away

They do not believe
You are making a category error.
Your claim is that the second group heard, understood and fell away.

Jesus says those who hear, understand and believe produce fruit.
So you are still contradicting Jesus by premising those who understand and believe with joy fall away.
 
You are making a category error.
Your claim is that the second group heard, understood and fell away.

Jesus says those who hear, understand and believe produce fruit.
So you are still contradicting Jesus by premising those who understand and believe with joy fall away.
sorry but

you are in error

It is the first group which did not understand

compare

Luke 8:11–12 (KJV 1900) — 11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

Matthew 13:19 (KJV 1900) — 19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

You will notice they do not believe

not understanding prevents belief

The first group is the only group which does not understand and the devil steals the word from their heart

In case the belief of the second group of itself refutes your theology which holds the unregenerate cannot believe

You do not deal with that at all
 
Then you are not believing the thing that was stated but something else
In the real world, people understand things differently. Their biases play a big role.
When God opens the mind and heart to understanding it bypasses the fallen self and becomes an absolute truth.

You don't know this because you believe only according to your fallen biases evidenced by your self aggrandization.
 
In the real world, people understand things differently. Their biases play a big role.
When God opens the mind and heart to understanding it bypasses the fallen self and becomes an absolute truth.

You don't know this because you believe only according to your fallen biases evidenced by your self aggrandization.
The problem is the verse specifically shows they believe the word, and not something else


Luke 8:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

Your theology insists they have no ability to believe

Your theology is therefore wrong, but you care more about your theology than the word of God
 
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