Ephesians 2:8- Faith is the gift

G

guest1

Guest

19th century Greek grammars, steeped in the Classical literature from which Koinē Greek developed, articulate the rule that a neuter demonstrative can refer back to a masculine or feminine word[20]. Modern commentators sometimes acknowledge this.​


First, Classical Greek literature, the Septuagint, and the New Testament, provide evidence that ‘this’ can indeed refer to ‘faith’. There are 15[3] certain or highly probable examples of this rule—ten in the classical literaturę[4], four in the Septuagint[5], and one in the Greek New Testament[6].

Expository Considerations (Ephesians 2:1-10)​

The trajectory of verses 1-7 is not that humans under sin are sick and impaired but dead and enslaved. We were ‘dead’ in our ‘transgressions and sins’ (v1), and Paul includes himself with us in that plight (v5). Every human at one time has walked according to the world, the flesh, and the devil (vv2-3), and this requires that God must make us alive in Christ (v5) if we are to exercise faith (v8).
The clause ‘by grace you are saved’ explains ‘he made us alive with Christ Jesus’ (v5). So ‘making alive’ is part of God’s salvation by grace. ‘By grace you are saved’ appears again (v8), but a new, human element is introduced—‘through faith.’ This makes it more likely that the new element, ‘faith’, is the subject of verse 9. That is, Paul has already explained that clause (vv5-7). But the new element, ‘through faith’ (v8) most needed the explanation of verses 8-9. Lest his readers think faith is some independent action on the part of the subject, the Apostle puts it more starkly—‘faith’ is in one sense ‘not from ourselves’, though from another perspective, ‘faith’ is obviously from ourselves. And if ‘faith’ is the gift of God, so too is ‘grace’ and ‘salvation’. It cannot be otherwise. As Œcumenius said, ‘for us to believe [is the] gift of God, and to be saved through faith [is the] gift of God’.[21] It is not ‘either/or’ but ‘both/and’.

The Eastern theological tradition considers that the divine cause of faith is adequately explained by God’s initiative-taking in the incarnation and gospel-preaching (Romans 10:14; Chrysostom; Œcumenius). This leaves room for free-will in the scheme of salvation, where grace is ‘fellow-worker’ (synergos) with free-will. It is synergistic.

By contrast, mature Augustinianism holds that the impulse by which we seek God is itself given to us by God.[22] ‘[W]e receive, without any merit of our own, that from which everything … has its beginning— that is, faith itself.’[23] Likewise, Fulgentiussays ‘and, since this faith is divinely enabled, it is without doubt bestowed by his free generosity’.[24] It is not only the divine invitation to, but the divine enablement of, faith, that more accurately accords with faith being ‘the gift of God’.

Meanwhile, the Eastern tradition tends to take ‘not from works’ to refer to salvation—even though it takes ‘the gift of God’ to be ‘faith’.[25] However, we might consider that ‘faith’ is ‘not from works’ in that no works merit the divine granting of faith. Works are not a condition of the gift of faith. This is how Augustine reads it: ‘And again, lest they should say they deserved so great a gift by their works, he immediately added, “Not of works, lest any man should boast”.’[26]

Conclusion:
The elderly Bishop Augustine effectively united the majority Eastern exegesis of Ephesians 2:8-10 with a theological underpinning that gave this exegesis its natural home. Augustine’s rejection of the near universal view of predestination according to foreseen virtue and embracing of absolute predestination made him the first thorough-going monergist. His soteriology was more consonant with the interpretation of Ephesians 2:8-9 found in the East.

Regarding ‘faith’ as the ‘gift of God’ in Ephesians 2:8-9 has ample support to merit the label ‘catholic’, even if the mature Augustinian doctrine of predestination does not.[31]

Learning these things from both the Eastern and Western exegetical traditions concerning Ephesians 2:8-10 enables us to be ‘more Calvinistic than Calvin’, who thought it an error to say that ‘faith’ was the gift here. But it is quite acceptable according to the rules of Greek syntax. Our modern grammars and commentaries should be revised to reflect that reality.https://au.thegospelcoalition.org/article/is-faith-the-gift-of-god-reading-ephesians-28-10-with-the-ancients/

hope this helps !!!
 
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Septextura

Well-known member
Jeremiah 30
21 And their nobles shall be of themselves, and their governor shall proceed from the midst of them; and I will cause him to draw near, and he shall approach unto me: for who is this that engaged his heart to approach unto me? saith the LORD.
22 And ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

1 Corinthians 1
30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

1 Corinthians 12
1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.
3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

Galatians 5

5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

1 Corinthians 4:7

For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?

Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Philippians 1

27 Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;
28 And in nothing terrified by your adversaries: which is to them an evident token of perdition, but to you of salvation, and that of God.
29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

Jonah 2
8 They that observe lying vanities forsake their own mercy.
9 But I will sacrifice unto thee with the voice of thanksgiving; I will pay that that I have vowed. Salvation is of the LORD.
10 And the LORD spake unto the fish, and it vomited out Jonah upon the dry land.
 
T

TomFL

Guest

19th century Greek grammars, steeped in the Classical literature from which Koinē Greek developed, articulate the rule that a neuter demonstrative can refer back to a masculine or feminine word[20]. Modern commentators sometimes acknowledge this.​


First, Classical Greek literature, the Septuagint, and the New Testament, provide evidence that ‘this’ can indeed refer to ‘faith’. There are 15[3] certain or highly probable examples of this rule—ten in the classical literaturę[4], four in the Septuagint[5], and one in the Greek New Testament[6].

Expository Considerations (Ephesians 2:1-10)​

The trajectory of verses 1-7 is not that humans under sin are sick and impaired but dead and enslaved. We were ‘dead’ in our ‘transgressions and sins’ (v1), and Paul includes himself with us in that plight (v5). Every human at one time has walked according to the world, the flesh, and the devil (vv2-3), and this requires that God must make us alive in Christ (v5) if we are to exercise faith (v8).
The clause ‘by grace you are saved’ explains ‘he made us alive with Christ Jesus’ (v5). So ‘making alive’ is part of God’s salvation by grace. ‘By grace you are saved’ appears again (v8), but a new, human element is introduced—‘through faith.’ This makes it more likely that the new element, ‘faith’, is the subject of verse 9. That is, Paul has already explained that clause (vv5-7). But the new element, ‘through faith’ (v8) most needed the explanation of verses 8-9. Lest his readers think faith is some independent action on the part of the subject, the Apostle puts it more starkly—‘faith’ is in one sense ‘not from ourselves’, though from another perspective, ‘faith’ is obviously from ourselves. And if ‘faith’ is the gift of God, so too is ‘grace’ and ‘salvation’. It cannot be otherwise. As Œcumenius said, ‘for us to believe [is the] gift of God, and to be saved through faith [is the] gift of God’.[21] It is not ‘either/or’ but ‘both/and’.

The Eastern theological tradition considers that the divine cause of faith is adequately explained by God’s initiative-taking in the incarnation and gospel-preaching (Romans 10:14; Chrysostom; Œcumenius). This leaves room for free-will in the scheme of salvation, where grace is ‘fellow-worker’ (synergos) with free-will. It is synergistic.

By contrast, mature Augustinianism holds that the impulse by which we seek God is itself given to us by God.[22] ‘[W]e receive, without any merit of our own, that from which everything … has its beginning— that is, faith itself.’[23] Likewise, Fulgentiussays ‘and, since this faith is divinely enabled, it is without doubt bestowed by his free generosity’.[24] It is not only the divine invitation to, but the divine enablement of, faith, that more accurately accords with faith being ‘the gift of God’.

Meanwhile, the Eastern tradition tends to take ‘not from works’ to refer to salvation—even though it takes ‘the gift of God’ to be ‘faith’.[25] However, we might consider that ‘faith’ is ‘not from works’ in that no works merit the divine granting of faith. Works are not a condition of the gift of faith. This is how Augustine reads it: ‘And again, lest they should say they deserved so great a gift by their works, he immediately added, “Not of works, lest any man should boast”.’[26]

Conclusion:
The elderly Bishop Augustine effectively united the majority Eastern exegesis of Ephesians 2:8-10 with a theological underpinning that gave this exegesis its natural home. Augustine’s rejection of the near universal view of predestination according to foreseen virtue and embracing of absolute predestination made him the first thorough-going monergist. His soteriology was more consonant with the interpretation of Ephesians 2:8-9 found in the East.

Regarding ‘faith’ as the ‘gift of God’ in Ephesians 2:8-9 has ample support to merit the label ‘catholic’, even if the mature Augustinian doctrine of predestination does not.[31]

Learning these things from both the Eastern and Western exegetical traditions concerning Ephesians 2:8-10 enables us to be ‘more Calvinistic than Calvin’, who thought it an error to say that ‘faith’ was the gift here. But it is quite acceptable according to the rules of Greek syntax. Our modern grammars and commentaries should be revised to reflect that reality.https://au.thegospelcoalition.org/article/is-faith-the-gift-of-god-reading-ephesians-28-10-with-the-ancients/

hope this helps !!!
Again you appeal to but a single New testament example

what is it

Ephesians 2:8 ?

Examined the article you reference online and found

BTW your article notes

Editors’ note:
Most modern interpreters believe the ‘gift of God’ is ‘salvation by grace through faith’. Ancient exegetes said that it was the faith itself.


the one reference according to Wallace is

[6] Wallace, op cit, 335 fn 56, regards Philippians 1:28 as the one ‘possible’ illustration, but Calvin, Comm Philippians, in Calvin Commentaries, 21:48, and G D Fee, Philippians: NICNT (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1995), 170, rightly limit the reference in v28 to ‘salvation’, since the explanation in v 29 (note ‘for’) shows Paul’s focus is on ‘salvation to you’ rather than the earlier ‘sign of destruction for them’.

So he does not consider Eph 2:8 to be an exception

And of the Witnesses mentioned

We already saw Chrysostom did not articulate the Calvinist view of faith but one of free will

Jerome and Theodoret are latin fathers

The article proclaims Augustine as the greatest theologians of the first 1000 years

Regarding


[15] Theophylact of Bulgaria (AD 1055–AD 1107) also gives a second interpretation: ‘Or [we can] also [take it] in another way: He is not saying [that] faith is the gift of God, but that to be saved through faith, this is the gift of God. For let us have it established that faith is our own: How could it [i.e. faith] alone be sufficient to save [us], unless God is pleased to receive us through it?’:

he gives a second contrary opinion

Fulgentius is around A.D. 500

Ecumenicus 990 A.D.

so the witnesses are questionable at best
 

TibiasDad

Well-known member

19th century Greek grammars, steeped in the Classical literature from which Koinē Greek developed, articulate the rule that a neuter demonstrative can refer back to a masculine or feminine word[20]. Modern commentators sometimes acknowledge this.​


First, Classical Greek literature, the Septuagint, and the New Testament, provide evidence that ‘this’ can indeed refer to ‘faith’. There are 15[3] certain or highly probable examples of this rule—ten in the classical literaturę[4], four in the Septuagint[5], and one in the Greek New Testament[6].

Expository Considerations (Ephesians 2:1-10)​

The trajectory of verses 1-7 is not that humans under sin are sick and impaired but dead and enslaved. We were ‘dead’ in our ‘transgressions and sins’ (v1), and Paul includes himself with us in that plight (v5). Every human at one time has walked according to the world, the flesh, and the devil (vv2-3), and this requires that God must make us alive in Christ (v5) if we are to exercise faith (v8).
The clause ‘by grace you are saved’ explains ‘he made us alive with Christ Jesus’ (v5). So ‘making alive’ is part of God’s salvation by grace. ‘By grace you are saved’ appears again (v8), but a new, human element is introduced—‘through faith.’ This makes it more likely that the new element, ‘faith’, is the subject of verse 9. That is, Paul has already explained that clause (vv5-7). But the new element, ‘through faith’ (v8) most needed the explanation of verses 8-9. Lest his readers think faith is some independent action on the part of the subject, the Apostle puts it more starkly—‘faith’ is in one sense ‘not from ourselves’, though from another perspective, ‘faith’ is obviously from ourselves. And if ‘faith’ is the gift of God, so too is ‘grace’ and ‘salvation’. It cannot be otherwise. As Œcumenius said, ‘for us to believe [is the] gift of God, and to be saved through faith [is the] gift of God’.[21] It is not ‘either/or’ but ‘both/and’.

The Eastern theological tradition considers that the divine cause of faith is adequately explained by God’s initiative-taking in the incarnation and gospel-preaching (Romans 10:14; Chrysostom; Œcumenius). This leaves room for free-will in the scheme of salvation, where grace is ‘fellow-worker’ (synergos) with free-will. It is synergistic.

By contrast, mature Augustinianism holds that the impulse by which we seek God is itself given to us by God.[22] ‘[W]e receive, without any merit of our own, that from which everything … has its beginning— that is, faith itself.’[23] Likewise, Fulgentiussays ‘and, since this faith is divinely enabled, it is without doubt bestowed by his free generosity’.[24] It is not only the divine invitation to, but the divine enablement of, faith, that more accurately accords with faith being ‘the gift of God’.

Meanwhile, the Eastern tradition tends to take ‘not from works’ to refer to salvation—even though it takes ‘the gift of God’ to be ‘faith’.[25] However, we might consider that ‘faith’ is ‘not from works’ in that no works merit the divine granting of faith. Works are not a condition of the gift of faith. This is how Augustine reads it: ‘And again, lest they should say they deserved so great a gift by their works, he immediately added, “Not of works, lest any man should boast”.’[26]

Conclusion:
The elderly Bishop Augustine effectively united the majority Eastern exegesis of Ephesians 2:8-10 with a theological underpinning that gave this exegesis its natural home. Augustine’s rejection of the near universal view of predestination according to foreseen virtue and embracing of absolute predestination made him the first thorough-going monergist. His soteriology was more consonant with the interpretation of Ephesians 2:8-9 found in the East.

Regarding ‘faith’ as the ‘gift of God’ in Ephesians 2:8-9 has ample support to merit the label ‘catholic’, even if the mature Augustinian doctrine of predestination does not.[31]

Learning these things from both the Eastern and Western exegetical traditions concerning Ephesians 2:8-10 enables us to be ‘more Calvinistic than Calvin’, who thought it an error to say that ‘faith’ was the gift here. But it is quite acceptable according to the rules of Greek syntax. Our modern grammars and commentaries should be revised to reflect that reality.https://au.thegospelcoalition.org/article/is-faith-the-gift-of-god-reading-ephesians-28-10-with-the-ancients/

hope this helps !!!

1) What is your source? I don't see a citation.

2) Basing your argument on 19th century scholarship, is not a negative in itself, but doesn't incorporate the advances that have been made. The last sentence of the prologue is curious. "Sometimes" generally means "on occasion", but not as a general rule.

3) The assertion that "a neuter demonstrative can refer back to a masculine or feminine word", does not imply that it always, or even usually does. Like " sometimes", "can" has a 'possible but not typical' tenor of meaning.

So based on the language of your evidence, it doesn't seem very likely, grammatically, that there is an exceptional reason for τοῦτο to refer specifically to faith. Possibly? Yes. Certainly? No. Probable? Not given the contextual evidence.

Doug
 
T

TomFL

Guest
1) What is your source? I don't see a citation.

2) Basing your argument on 19th century scholarship, is not a negative in itself, but doesn't incorporate the advances that have been made. The last sentence of the prologue is curious. "Sometimes" generally means "on occasion", but not as a general rule.

3) The assertion that "a neuter demonstrative can refer back to a masculine or feminine word", does not imply that it always, or even usually does. Like " sometimes", "can" has a 'possible but not typical' tenor of meaning.

So based on the language of your evidence, it doesn't seem very likely, grammatically, that there is an exceptional reason for τοῦτο to refer specifically to faith. Possibly? Yes. Certainly? No. Probable? Not given the contextual evidence.

Doug
I found his source for the witnesses and I find it quite questionable

Chysostom denied a Calvinist understanding of faith and held to free will

Theophylact of Bulgaria offer a second understanding contradicting the claim that faith was the gift

Jerome spoke Latin

Theodoret I previously incorrectly noted spoke in latin (note however he denied the Calvinist understanding of faith)

I have yet to see an actual quote but looking



Augustine according to more than one source never mastered Greek

AUGNET : 1311 Greek language

augnet.org/en/life-of-augustine/augustine-in-general/1311-greek-language
Contrary to the custom in Rome of his day, the classical schooling that Augustine received in colonial North Africa was conducted principally in Latin rather than in Greek. Augustine later wrote in his Confessions that his first Greek teacher was a brutal man who constantly beat his students. As a result, Augustine rebelled by vowing never to learn Greek.

That left Ecumenius and Fulgentius

One around 500 A.d. and the other 990

I am still researching them

The article listed but 1 possible exception of to the rule of concord and that was at Phil 1:28

Philippians 1:28 (CSB)
28 not being frightened in any way by your opponents. This is a sign of destruction for them, but of your salvation — and this is from God.

The question is what does "this" refer to

The article argues for salvation but there are other opinions

And that of God. That is, their persecution is a proof that God will interpose in due time, and save you. The hostility of the wicked to us is one evidence that we are the friends of God, and shall be saved.
Barnes' Notes on the New Testament.

On a note regarding Fulgentius there is an article which claims

  1. All five (Chrysostom, Theodoret, Jerome, Œcumenius, Theophylact) held that ‘faith’ is grammatically ‘not from us’ and ‘the gift of God’ in spite of the fact that they were synergists and believed that human free will must co-operate with God’s grace in human salvation.

it is noted all held to free will and thus deny the Calvinist understanding of how faith arises
 
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T

TomFL

Guest
I found his source for the witnesses and I find it quite questionable

Chysostom denied a Calvinist understanding of faith and held to free will

Theophylact of Bulgaria offer a second understanding contradicting the claim that faith was the gift

Jerome spoke Latin

Theodoret I previously incorrectly noted spoke in latin (note however he denied the Calvinist understanding of faith)

I have yet to see an actual quote but looking



Augustine according to more than one source never mastered Greek

AUGNET : 1311 Greek language

augnet.org/en/life-of-augustine/augustine-in-general/1311-greek-language
Contrary to the custom in Rome of his day, the classical schooling that Augustine received in colonial North Africa was conducted principally in Latin rather than in Greek. Augustine later wrote in his Confessions that his first Greek teacher was a brutal man who constantly beat his students. As a result, Augustine rebelled by vowing never to learn Greek.

That left Ecumenius and Fulgentius

One around 500 A.d. and the other 990

I am still researching them

The article listed but 1 possible exception of to the rule of concord and that was at Phil 1:28

Philippians 1:28 (CSB)
28 not being frightened in any way by your opponents. This is a sign of destruction for them, but of your salvation — and this is from God.

The question is what does "this" refer to

The article argues for salvation but there are other opinions

And that of God. That is, their persecution is a proof that God will interpose in due time, and save you. The hostility of the wicked to us is one evidence that we are the friends of God, and shall be saved.
Barnes' Notes on the New Testament.

On a note regarding Fulgentius there is an article which claims

  1. All five (Chrysostom, Theodoret, Jerome, Œcumenius, Theophylact) held that ‘faith’ is grammatically ‘not from us’ and ‘the gift of God’ in spite of the fact that they were synergists and believed that human free will must co-operate with God’s grace in human salvation.

it is noted all held to free will and thus deny the Calvinist understanding of how faith arises
Quote from fulgentius

It is clear that Fulgentius follows the mature Augustine’s exegesis of Ephesians 2:8-10. On verses 8 to 9, he says:

The blessed Paul argues that we are saved by faith, which he declares to be not from us but a gift from God. Thus there cannot possibly be true salvation where there is no true faith, and, since this faith is divinely enabled, it is without doubt bestowed by his free generosity. Where there is true belief through true faith, true salvation certainly accompanies it. Anyone who departs from true faith will not possess the grace of true salvation. (On the Incarnation, 1)[3]

where he speak of faith being enabled

I see his comments as uncertain as to whether he supports a Calvinist understanding or he agrees with the others five noted above

a second quote

He added this lest he dare, out of the presumptuousness of human pride, to claim anything for himself after the faith (through which we have been freely saved) has been approved, and so that instead he might assign even the grace of good works to the benefits of divine goodness.[4]

leads me to doubt he supports the Calvinist view
 

brightfame52

Well-known member

19th century Greek grammars, steeped in the Classical literature from which Koinē Greek developed, articulate the rule that a neuter demonstrative can refer back to a masculine or feminine word[20]. Modern commentators sometimes acknowledge this.​


First, Classical Greek literature, the Septuagint, and the New Testament, provide evidence that ‘this’ can indeed refer to ‘faith’. There are 15[3] certain or highly probable examples of this rule—ten in the classical literaturę[4], four in the Septuagint[5], and one in the Greek New Testament[6].

Expository Considerations (Ephesians 2:1-10)​

The trajectory of verses 1-7 is not that humans under sin are sick and impaired but dead and enslaved. We were ‘dead’ in our ‘transgressions and sins’ (v1), and Paul includes himself with us in that plight (v5). Every human at one time has walked according to the world, the flesh, and the devil (vv2-3), and this requires that God must make us alive in Christ (v5) if we are to exercise faith (v8).
The clause ‘by grace you are saved’ explains ‘he made us alive with Christ Jesus’ (v5). So ‘making alive’ is part of God’s salvation by grace. ‘By grace you are saved’ appears again (v8), but a new, human element is introduced—‘through faith.’ This makes it more likely that the new element, ‘faith’, is the subject of verse 9. That is, Paul has already explained that clause (vv5-7). But the new element, ‘through faith’ (v8) most needed the explanation of verses 8-9. Lest his readers think faith is some independent action on the part of the subject, the Apostle puts it more starkly—‘faith’ is in one sense ‘not from ourselves’, though from another perspective, ‘faith’ is obviously from ourselves. And if ‘faith’ is the gift of God, so too is ‘grace’ and ‘salvation’. It cannot be otherwise. As Œcumenius said, ‘for us to believe [is the] gift of God, and to be saved through faith [is the] gift of God’.[21] It is not ‘either/or’ but ‘both/and’.

The Eastern theological tradition considers that the divine cause of faith is adequately explained by God’s initiative-taking in the incarnation and gospel-preaching (Romans 10:14; Chrysostom; Œcumenius). This leaves room for free-will in the scheme of salvation, where grace is ‘fellow-worker’ (synergos) with free-will. It is synergistic.

By contrast, mature Augustinianism holds that the impulse by which we seek God is itself given to us by God.[22] ‘[W]e receive, without any merit of our own, that from which everything … has its beginning— that is, faith itself.’[23] Likewise, Fulgentiussays ‘and, since this faith is divinely enabled, it is without doubt bestowed by his free generosity’.[24] It is not only the divine invitation to, but the divine enablement of, faith, that more accurately accords with faith being ‘the gift of God’.

Meanwhile, the Eastern tradition tends to take ‘not from works’ to refer to salvation—even though it takes ‘the gift of God’ to be ‘faith’.[25] However, we might consider that ‘faith’ is ‘not from works’ in that no works merit the divine granting of faith. Works are not a condition of the gift of faith. This is how Augustine reads it: ‘And again, lest they should say they deserved so great a gift by their works, he immediately added, “Not of works, lest any man should boast”.’[26]

Conclusion:
The elderly Bishop Augustine effectively united the majority Eastern exegesis of Ephesians 2:8-10 with a theological underpinning that gave this exegesis its natural home. Augustine’s rejection of the near universal view of predestination according to foreseen virtue and embracing of absolute predestination made him the first thorough-going monergist. His soteriology was more consonant with the interpretation of Ephesians 2:8-9 found in the East.

Regarding ‘faith’ as the ‘gift of God’ in Ephesians 2:8-9 has ample support to merit the label ‘catholic’, even if the mature Augustinian doctrine of predestination does not.[31]

Learning these things from both the Eastern and Western exegetical traditions concerning Ephesians 2:8-10 enables us to be ‘more Calvinistic than Calvin’, who thought it an error to say that ‘faith’ was the gift here. But it is quite acceptable according to the rules of Greek syntax. Our modern grammars and commentaries should be revised to reflect that reality.https://au.thegospelcoalition.org/article/is-faith-the-gift-of-god-reading-ephesians-28-10-with-the-ancients/

hope this helps !!!
I liked it, my only criticism would be when he said faith is a human element, but he didn't mean it in the same way as the arminians meant it, he still recognized it as the Gift of God.
 
T

TomFL

Guest
I liked it, my only criticism would be when he said faith is a human element, but he didn't mean it in the same way as the arminians meant it, he still recognized it as the Gift of God.

19th century Greek grammars, steeped in the Classical literature from which Koinē Greek developed, articulate the rule that a neuter demonstrative can refer back to a masculine or feminine word[20]. Modern commentators sometimes acknowledge this.​


regarding the above claim one of the references cited states this

1613394276833.png

This seems to me to provide support for the idea of salvation being the gift
 

brightfame52

Well-known member

19th century Greek grammars, steeped in the Classical literature from which Koinē Greek developed, articulate the rule that a neuter demonstrative can refer back to a masculine or feminine word[20]. Modern commentators sometimes acknowledge this.​


regarding the above claim one of the references cited states this

View attachment 877

This seems to me to provide support for the idea of salvation being the gift
Faith is the Gift of God Eph 2:8

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
 
T

TomFL

Guest
Faith is the Gift of God Eph 2:8

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Last I looked Eph 2:8 is scripture.
Salvation is the gift there as here

Romans 6:23 (KJV)
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Salvation is the gift there as here

Romans 6:23 (KJV)
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Faith is the Gift of God here Eph 2:8

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Its plain as the noon day sun !
 
T

TomFL

Guest
Faith is the Gift of God here Eph 2:8

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Its plain as the noon day sun !
And that (kai touto). Neuter, not feminine tautē, and so refers not to pistis (feminine) or to charis (feminine also), but to the act of being saved by grace conditioned on faith on our part. Paul shows that salvation does not have its source (ex humōn, out of you) in men, but from God. Besides, it is God's gift (dōron) and not the result of our work.


Word Pictures in the New Testament.

And that


Not faith, but the salvation.


Word Studies in the New Testament.

But on the other hand the salvation is the main idea in the preceding statement, and it seems best to understand the καὶ τοῦτο as referring to that salvation in its entire compass, and not merely to the one element in it, its instrumental cause, appended by way of explanation. θεοῦ τὸ δῶρον; it is the gift of God. Or, perhaps, "God's gift it is". The salvation is not an achievement but a gift, and a gift from none other than God
Expositor's Greek Testament, The - Volume 3.

apparently not
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
And that (kai touto). Neuter, not feminine tautē, and so refers not to pistis (feminine) or to charis (feminine also), but to the act of being saved by grace conditioned on faith on our part. Paul shows that salvation does not have its source (ex humōn, out of you) in men, but from God. Besides, it is God's gift (dōron) and not the result of our work.


Word Pictures in the New Testament.

And that


Not faith, but the salvation.


Word Studies in the New Testament.

But on the other hand the salvation is the main idea in the preceding statement, and it seems best to understand the καὶ τοῦτο as referring to that salvation in its entire compass, and not merely to the one element in it, its instrumental cause, appended by way of explanation. θεοῦ τὸ δῶρον; it is the gift of God. Or, perhaps, "God's gift it is". The salvation is not an achievement but a gift, and a gift from none other than God
Expositor's Greek Testament, The - Volume 3.

apparently not
You say you believe the bible, so here u go:

Faith is the Gift of God here Eph 2:8

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Its plain as the noon day sun !
 

Septextura

Well-known member
Canons of Dort
Head I: Of Divine Predestination

Article 5
The cause or guilt of this unbelief as well as of all other sins, is no wise in God, but in man himself; whereas faith in Jesus Christ, and salvation through him is the free gift of God, as it is written: "By grace ye are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God," Ephesians 2:8. "And unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him," etc. Philippians 1:29.

Article 6
That some receive the gift of faith from God, and others do not receive it proceeds from God's eternal decree, "For known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world," Acts 15:18. "Who worketh all things after the counsel of his will," Ephesians 1:11. According to which decree, he graciously softens the hearts of the elect, however obstinate, and inclines them to believe, while he leaves the non-elect in his just judgment to their own wickedness and obduracy. And herein is especially displayed the profound, and merciful, and at the same time the righteous discrimination between men, equally involved in ruin; or that decree of election and reprobation, revealed in the Word of God, which though men of perverse, impure and unstable minds wrest to their own destruction, yet to holy and pious souls affords unspeakable consolation.


Rejection of Errors

IV

Who teach: that in the election unto faith this condition is beforehand demanded, namely, that man should use the light of nature aright, be pious, humble, meek, and fit for eternal life, as if on these things election were in any way dependent. For this savors of the teaching of Pelagius, and is opposed to the doctrine of the apostle, when he writes: "Among whom we also all once lived in the lust of our flesh, doing the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest; but God being rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have ye been saved), and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in heavenly places, in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in kindness towards us in Christ Jesus; for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not of works, that no man should glory," Ephesians 2:3-9.
 

TibiasDad

Well-known member
The article listed but 1 possible exception of to the rule of concord and that was at Phil 1:28

Philippians 1:28 (CSB)
28 not being frightened in any way by your opponents. This is a sign of destruction for them, but of your salvation — and this is from God.

The question is what does "this" refer to

The article argues for salvation but there are other opinions

And that of God. That is, their persecution is a proof that God will interpose in due time, and save you. The hostility of the wicked to us is one evidence that we are the friends of God, and shall be saved.
Barnes' Notes on the New Testament.
"This" is the sign, singular, which demonstrates two options of result. It is the same principle as Eph 2, where the singular, neuter, "this" refers to the singular concept of salvation, in which the two dynamics of grace and faith belong.

Doug
 
T

TomFL

Guest
"This" is the sign, singular, which demonstrates two options of result. It is the same principle as Eph 2, where the singular, neuter, "this" refers to the singular concept of salvation, in which the two dynamics of grace and faith belong.

Doug
I agree it is it not salvation in Phil 1:28 or faith in Eph 2:8 which is the antecedent of touto
 
T

TomFL

Guest
Again you appeal to but a single New testament example

what is it

Ephesians 2:8 ?

Examined the article you reference online and found

BTW your article notes

Editors’ note:
Most modern interpreters believe the ‘gift of God’ is ‘salvation by grace through faith’. Ancient exegetes said that it was the faith itself.


the one reference according to Wallace is

[6] Wallace, op cit, 335 fn 56, regards Philippians 1:28 as the one ‘possible’ illustration, but Calvin, Comm Philippians, in Calvin Commentaries, 21:48, and G D Fee, Philippians: NICNT (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1995), 170, rightly limit the reference in v28 to ‘salvation’, since the explanation in v 29 (note ‘for’) shows Paul’s focus is on ‘salvation to you’ rather than the earlier ‘sign of destruction for them’.

So he does not consider Eph 2:8 to be an exception

And of the Witnesses mentioned

We already saw Chrysostom did not articulate the Calvinist view of faith but one of free will

Jerome and Theodoret are latin fathers

The article proclaims Augustine as the greatest theologians of the first 1000 years

Regarding


[15] Theophylact of Bulgaria (AD 1055–AD 1107) also gives a second interpretation: ‘Or [we can] also [take it] in another way: He is not saying [that] faith is the gift of God, but that to be saved through faith, this is the gift of God. For let us have it established that faith is our own: How could it [i.e. faith] alone be sufficient to save [us], unless God is pleased to receive us through it?’:

he gives a second contrary opinion

Fulgentius is around A.D. 500

Ecumenicus 990 A.D.

so the witnesses are questionable at best
One correction here Theodoret is not a latin Fathers
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Faith, like everything else related to salvation, is a benefaction given by God, it does not emanate within ourselves: "For by grace (unmerited favor) are ye saved through faith; and that (faith) NOT OF YOURSELVES: it is the GIFT of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast" (Eph. 2:8,9). Saving Faith will believe the truth of the Gospel, and not a false gospel, for it is Spirit born Faith that comes from God (see 1 Thess. 2:13,14).
 
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