Ephesians 2:8- Faith is the gift

Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
Wrong, as usual.
God doesn't "specifically elect" anyone "to be damned".
The ENTIRE world lies in condemnation, because of their sin, so God has no need to "elect" them to damnation, He simply passes over them and lets them earn the just rewards for their sins.
SO He CAUSES them to be damned by not "Electing them" to salvation which THEY WILL ACCEPT IF ELECT ("I")
Wrong again.
"U" doesn't stand for "arbitrary".
And no Calvinist teaches that God's election is "arbitrary".
Just because we don't know why God chose one over another, doesn't make it "arbitrary".
"U" says it's "Unconditional" (Rom 9:11) which makes it arbitrary. Bottom line: you DON'T KNOW.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Chuckle!! Nope, your foolishness denies that MAN'S WILL is involved, and the decision to REPENT willingly starts the ball rolling when under Conviction of SIN by the Holy Spirit.
you teach a salvation which occurs only after a man has done something, that isnt Salvation by Grace friend.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
SO He CAUSES them to be damned by not "Electing them" to salvation which THEY WILL ACCEPT IF ELECT ("I")

Like a judge "causes" someone to be a criminal if he doesn't pardon them.

You know actions have consequences, right?
(Maybe I assume too much... Maybe you don't know that...)

"U" says it's "Unconditional" (Rom 9:11) which makes it arbitrary. Bottom line: you DON'T KNOW.

"Don't know" is NOT the same as "arbitrary".

"Why does someone sometimes get paid out on a "7" in Craps, and sometimes loses on a "7". I don't know.... It must be "arbitrary".

(No... No. No, it isn't.)
 
T

TomFL

Guest
Like a judge "causes" someone to be a criminal if he doesn't pardon them.

You know actions have consequences, right?
(Maybe I assume too much... Maybe you don't know that...)

What happened to God's meticulous determination of all things



If God merely foresaw human events, and did not also arrange and dispose of them at his pleasure, there might be room for agitating the question, how far his foreknowledge amounts to necessity; but since he foresees the things which are to happen, simply because he has decreed that they are so to happen, it is vain to debate about prescience, while it is clear that all events take place by his sovereign appointment.
Institutes of the Christian Religion. (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 6)

…God is the only being who is ultimately self-determining, and is himself ultimately the disposer of all things, including all choices — however many or diverse other intervening causes are. On this definition, no human being has free will, at any time. Neither before or after the fall, or in heaven, are creatures ultimately self-determining. There are great measures of self-determination, as the Bible often shows, but never is man the ultimate or decisive cause of his preferences and choices. When man’s agency and God’s agency are compared, both are real, but God’s is decisive
A beginners guide to free will

Nothing that exists or occurs falls outside God’s ordaining will. Nothing, including no evil person or thing or event or deed. God’s foreordination is the ultimate reason why everything comes about, including the existence of all evil persons and things and the occurrence of any evil acts or events. And so it is not inappropriate to take God to be the creator, the sender, the permitter, and sometimes even the instigator of evil… Nothing — no evil thing or person or event or deed — falls outside God’s ordaining will. Nothing arises, exists, or endures independently of God’s will. So when even the worst of evils befall us, they do not ultimately come from anywhere other than God’s hand.

b Talbot, "All the Good That Is Ours in Christ",, ed. John Piper and Justin Taylor,
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
RIDICULOUS!! a personal is a criminal because they committed a CRIME. What the Judge says doesn't mean SQUAT. The Judge CAN make things inconvenient, of course.

And a SINNER is a SINNER because they committed (many) SINS!
Not because "God elected them for damnation".

I'm truly sorry that you can't accept correction.
 

Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
And a SINNER is a SINNER because they committed (many) SINS!
Sure, just like every other Human that ever lived (except one)
Not because "God elected them for damnation".
But since all humans are SINNERS, and the "Atonement" is limited ("L") to those God "Elects", the it's inescapable that the ones the God DOESN'T "Elect" to be saved, have been "Elected" to perish. You can't have it both ways.
I'm truly sorry that you can't accept correction.
The Calvie line is that He "elected" to let them perish, instead of "Electing them" to be Born again. Neither side has any choice in the matter. the "Un-Elect" can do nothing but perish, and the Elect (because of "I") will be Born again, and will persevere ("P").

No argument that ALL HAVE SINNED AND FALLEN SHORT, just like me.

What did I say that inaccurate from a Calvie point of view??
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
the it's inescapable that the ones the God DOESN'T "Elect" to be saved, have been "Elected" to perish.

No, "election" is only in one direction.

You can't have it both ways.

Yeah, actually, I can.

The Calvie line is that He "elected" to let them perish,

False.

You cannot quote ONE Calvinist source that says that false claim.

What did I say that inaccurate from a Calvie point of view??

See above.
But why even waste our time asking?
It is clear that you always refuse to accept correction.
 
T

TomFL

Guest
And a SINNER is a SINNER because they committed (many) SINS!
Not because "God elected them for damnation".

I'm truly sorry that you can't accept correction.
And according to Calvinism God determined that

Nothing that exists or occurs falls outside God’s ordaining will. Nothing, including no evil person or thing or event or deed. God’s foreordination is the ultimate reason why everything comes about, including the existence of all evil persons and things and the occurrence of any evil acts or events. And so it is not inappropriate to take God to be the creator, the sender, the permitter, and sometimes even the instigator of evil… Nothing — no evil thing or person or event or deed — falls outside God’s ordaining will. Nothing arises, exists, or endures independently of God’s will. So when even the worst of evils befall us, they do not ultimately come from anywhere other than God’s hand.

b Talbot, "All the Good That Is Ours in Christ", i ed. John Piper and Justin Taylor,
 
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