Especially For Markk, Joseph Smith Treasure Digging.

[Markk]

Regardless of the perspective (believing or non-believing) from which we tell the story of the translation, the essential fact of the translation is unchanged​

The conclusion that Joseph used a "magical" or "occult" stone to assist in the translation of the Book of Mormon is entirely dependent upon one's own preconception that the use of such an instrument would not be acceptable by God. Believers, on the other hand, ought not to take issue with a distinction between one set of seer stones versus another. As Brant Gardner notes: "Regardless of the perspective from which we tell the story, the essential fact of the translation is unchanged. How was the Book of Mormon translated? As Joseph continually insisted, the only real answer, from any perspective, is that it was translated by the gift and power of God."
Brant A. Gardner, Why Did He Translate With a Rock in His Hat?


So Markk I would place you in the category of the preconception he used a magic or occult seer stone... as for me, well since I don't have to worry about the truth of the BOM as being a traslation of the Gold Plates, it somehow makes it so much easier for me, versus you have to continue to deny everything.... you put your faith in Bushman, Arrington, Mormonism Unveiled, David Whitmer and yet these same individuals except for Mormonism Unveiled, are members of the Church and held high positions or as witnesses.... you are having a difficult time trying to find any truth I think!

Ralf...focus, I am only telling you what the church teaches. I personally don't believe any of it. I believe JS was a pious fraud. Your argument is with your prophet and your church.

 

[Richard7]

Ralf...focus, I am only telling you what the church teaches. I personally don't believe any of it. I believe JS was a pious fraud. Your argument is with your prophet and your church.

No Markk, I'm a seeker of truth and when the Prophet receives revelation for the world, I pray about it and then vote to approve since I have as of yet never doubted the Prophet or Prophets... Prophets are not infallible....

When the Church curriculum teaches things I have found to be suspect, its my prerogative and duty to myself to search it out and validate.
Otherwise we would all be considered brainwashed zombies.

“… A man is saved no faster than he gets knowledge, for if he does not get knowledge, he will be brought into captivity by some evil power in the other world, as evil spirits will have more knowledge, and consequently more power than many men who are on the earth. Hence it needs revelation to assist us, and give us knowledge of the things of God.”
History of the Church,

 

[Markk]

No Markk, I'm a seeker of truth and when the Prophet receives revelation for the world, I pray about it and then vote to approve since I have as of yet never doubted the Prophet or Prophets... Prophets are not infallible....

When the Church curriculum teaches things I have found to be suspect, its my prerogative and duty to myself to search it out and validate.
Otherwise we would all be considered brainwashed zombies.

Then is general, stake, or ward conferences...did you vote a nay in sustaining your leaders, or do you raise your right hand as a sustaining yeah?

Ralf was a member, with far deeper roots that you can imagine; you can't pull that on me, or for that matter, Mag's.

It is currently your duty as a member, if you disagree with a leader, to take it to your Bishop, and/or Stake President. Did you do that in your last conference? I am going to hold you to this until you answer.

You have the free agency to sustain or not to sustain...what did you do?

Apparently, you do not sustain your prophet. is that true?

 

[Richard7]

Then is general, stake, or ward conferences...did you vote a nay in sustaining your leaders, or do you raise your right hand as a sustaining yeah?

Of course I did, not necessary to ask that, after all I'm a true blue member.

Ralf was a member, with far deeper roots that you can imagine; you can't pull that on me, or for that matter, Mag's.

It is currently your duty as a member, if you disagree with a leader, to take it to your Bishop, and/or Stake President. Did you do that in your last conference? I am going to hold you to this until you answer.

I did not see or hear anything I disagree with Markk... your question make no sense.

You have the free agency to sustain or not to sustain...what did you do?

Sustain of course. I have no idea where your going with this, are we still talking about treasure digging? hmm

Apparently, you do not sustain your prophet. is that true?

Bogus, where can you decipher that from?