Eternal Life is never lost

civic

Active member
This thread is to discuss passages concerning Eternal Life and not other passages so we can stay on topic. If that is to difficult then by all means it can be for another thread or topic.

Eternal life is what its name suggests an unending or everlasting life. If eternal life could be lost then it is misnamed because it wouldn’t really be eternal and be referred to as temporal or conditional life. All who have eternal life will live forever with Christ in heaven. Once you believe in Christ your eternal destiny in God’s kingdom sealed and is guaranteed with Eternal Life.

Eternal life is not just unending life. It is the life we now have in God through Jesus. John refers to Jesus Christ Himself as eternal life. It is life that comes from God. A person who has eternal life has God’s life within him.

It is obvious that eternal life doesn’t begin when we die. Jesus said, He who believes in Me has (present tense) everlasting life. He didn’t say that the one who believes in Him will have (future tense) everlasting life. He said that he has eternal life in the here and now from that very first moment of faith. Eternal life is unending life.

Jesus emphasis is that eternal life is a present reality and the present possession of the believer in the here and now. It will have its ultimate fulfillment in the future but every believer has eternal life at the moment they believe in the Son of God.

Jesus said I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. (John 10:28).That means nothing or no one can remove a believer from Christ.

Jesus tells us in John 3:15-16 that whoever believes in Jesus Christ will have eternal life, not might have but actually possesses that everlasting life. If a person is promised eternal life and then to have it taken away then it was never eternal to begin with and it makes Jesus out to be a liar and the promises of God to be false. Below we see more promises the believer can count on for eternal life now and in the future. We can be confident in the promises of God.

John 3:16
16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:36
"He who believes in the Son has eternal life;

John 5:24
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 6:47
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

John 6:54
54 "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.

John 10:27-30
"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29 "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30 "I and the Father are one."

Matt 25:46
"These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

1 John 5:13
These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

hope this helps,
 

zerinus

Member
This thread is to discuss passages concerning Eternal Life and not other passages so we can stay on topic. If that is to difficult then by all means it can be for another thread or topic.

Eternal life is what its name suggests an unending or everlasting life. If eternal life could be lost then it is misnamed because it wouldn’t really be eternal and be referred to as temporal or conditional life.
The term "eternal life," as used in scripture, means more than just a life that "never ends". It is more than just the opposite of a "temporary life". Don't the the devils in hell live "forever" in that condition? If your definition of "eternal life" was correct, then the devils in hell also have "eternal life," because they live "eternally" wherever they happen to be. So "eternal life" is more than just the opposite of a "temporary life".
All who have eternal life will live forever with Christ in heaven. Once you believe in Christ your eternal destiny in God’s kingdom sealed and is guaranteed with Eternal Life.
You are now going beyond the definition of what it means to have "eternal life". At first you say (rightly) that "eternal life" means to live forever with Christ in heaven. Agreed. Then you go on to say that once you have "believed," that eternal destiny is "sealed," and there is nothing that happen that can change it. That is not taught in scripture. That is your own invention.
Eternal life is not just unending life. It is the life we now have in God through Jesus. John refers to Jesus Christ Himself as eternal life. It is life that comes from God. A person who has eternal life has God’s life within him.
That is speculative philosophy, not scripture.
It is obvious that eternal life doesn’t begin when we die. Jesus said, He who believes in Me has (present tense) everlasting life. He didn’t say that the one who believes in Him will have (future tense) everlasting life. He said that he has eternal life in the here and now from that very first moment of faith. Eternal life is unending life.

Jesus emphasis is that eternal life is a present reality and the present possession of the believer in the here and now. It will have its ultimate fulfillment in the future but every believer has eternal life at the moment they believe in the Son of God.

Jesus said I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. (John 10:28).That means nothing or no one can remove a believer from Christ.

Jesus tells us in John 3:15-16 that whoever believes in Jesus Christ will have eternal life, not might have but actually possesses that everlasting life. If a person is promised eternal life and then to have it taken away then it was never eternal to begin with and it makes Jesus out to be a liar and the promises of God to be false. Below we see more promises the believer can count on for eternal life now and in the future. We can be confident in the promises of God.

John 3:16
16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:36
"He who believes in the Son has eternal life;

John 5:24
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 6:47
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

John 6:54
54 "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.

John 10:27-30
"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29 "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30 "I and the Father are one."

Matt 25:46
"These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

1 John 5:13
These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

hope this helps,
I also have some scriptures for you to look at:

Matthew 5:

29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee…


Does that mean that you should literally pluck out your eye?

Matthew 6:

3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth.


Does this mean that one should literally not let his left hand know what his other hand is doing?

Matthew 11:

23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven shalt be brought down to hell …


Does this mean that Capernaum was literally “exalted to heaven”.

Matthew 23:

24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.


Does this mean that they were literally “swallowing a camel”?

Luke 14:

26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.


Does this mean that one should literally hate one’s father and mother, and brothers and sisters, and wife and kids in order to become a disciple of Jesus?

John 12:

19 The Pharisees therefore said among themselves … behold, the world is gone after him.


Did that mean that literally "the whole world" had gone after him?

John 17:

11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee.


Does this mean that Jesus was literally “no more in the world”? Obviously not; he was anticipating that he soon would not be.

Matthew 26:

26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.
27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Mark 14:

22 And as they did eat, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and brake it, and gave to them, and said, Take, eat: this is my body.
23 And he took the cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them: and they all drank of it.
24 And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many.


Does that mean that he was literally offering them his flesh and blood to eat and drink? Obviously not. And how are these verses different from the ones you had quoted? In both cases the language used is hyperbolic. It is not meant to be taken literally. There are other passages of scripture that teach that salvation, or gaining eternal life, are granted with certain preconditions. Faith is one of them, but not the only one. They include faith, repentance, baptism, and "enduring to the end". All of that is taught in the Bible:

"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved" (Mark 16:16).
"he that endureth to the end shall be saved" (Matt. 10:22).
"Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins" (Acts 2:38).
"And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations" (Luke 24:47).
"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven" (Matt. 7:21).
"But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves" (James 1:22)
.

In addition to these of course there are all those verses that teach that even after one has fully accepted the gospel and believed, it is still possible to fall away and be damned, as I have already discussed in this thread. So "once saved, always saved" is a heresy of Calvinism which is false, unbiblical, and untrue.
 

civic

Active member
The term "eternal life," as used in scripture, means more than just a life that "never ends". It is more than just the opposite of a "temporary life". Don't the the devils in hell live "forever" in that condition? If your definition of "eternal life" was correct, then the devils in hell also have "eternal life," because they live "eternally" wherever they happen to be. So "eternal life" is more than just the opposite of a "temporary life".

You are now going beyond the definition of what it means to have "eternal life". At first you say (rightly) that "eternal life" means to live forever with Christ in heaven. Agreed. Then you go on to say that once you have "believed," that eternal destiny is "sealed," and there is nothing that happen that can change it. That is not taught in scripture. That is your own invention.

That is speculative philosophy, not scripture.

I also have some scriptures for you to look at:


Matthew 5:

29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee…


Does that mean that you should literally pluck out your eye?

Matthew 6:

3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth.


Does this mean that one should literally not let his left hand know what his other hand is doing?

Matthew 11:

23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven shalt be brought down to hell …


Does this mean that Capernaum was literally “exalted to heaven”.

Matthew 23:

24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.


Does this mean that they were literally “swallowing a camel”?

Luke 14:

26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.


Does this mean that one should literally hate one’s father and mother, and brothers and sisters, and wife and kids in order to become a disciple of Jesus?

John 12:

19 The Pharisees therefore said among themselves … behold, the world is gone after him.


Did that mean that literally "the whole world" had gone after him?

John 17:

11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee.


Does this mean that Jesus was literally “no more in the world”? Obviously not; he was anticipating that he soon would not be.

Matthew 26:

26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.
27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Mark 14:

22 And as they did eat, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and brake it, and gave to them, and said, Take, eat: this is my body.
23 And he took the cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them: and they all drank of it.
24 And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many.


Does that mean that he was literally offering them his flesh and blood to eat and drink? Obviously not. And how are these verses different from the ones you had quoted? In both cases the language used is hyperbolic. It is not meant to be taken literally. There are other passages of scripture that teach that salvation, or gaining eternal life, are granted with certain preconditions. Faith is one of them, but not the only one. They include faith, repentance, baptism, and "enduring to the end". All of that is taught in the Bible:

"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved" (Mark 16:16).
"he that endureth to the end shall be saved" (Matt. 10:22).
"Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins" (Acts 2:38).
"And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations" (Luke 24:47).
"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven" (Matt. 7:21).
"But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves" (James 1:22)
.

In addition to these of course there are all those verses that teach that even after one has fully accepted the gospel and believed, it is still possible to fall away and be damned, as I have already discussed in this thread. So "once saved, always saved" is a heresy of Calvinism which is false, unbiblical, and untrue.
The OP is specific regarding passages about Eternal Life. I'm discussing those not the others.
 

zerinus

Member
The OP is specific regarding passages about Eternal Life. I'm discussing those not the others.
I was discussing those as well. I had quoted the other scriptures in order to provide context to demonstrate how and why you were misreading those. Try again.
 

Newbirth

Member
This thread is to discuss passages concerning Eternal Life and not other passages so we can stay on topic. If that is to difficult then by all means it can be for another thread or topic.
Matthew 10:28
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
is this an indication that a soul can be destroyed therefore not eternal?
Eternal life is what its name suggests an unending or everlasting life. If eternal life could be lost then it is misnamed because it wouldn’t really be eternal and be referred to as temporal or conditional life. All who have eternal life will live forever with Christ in heaven. Once you believe in Christ your eternal destiny in God’s kingdom sealed and is guaranteed with Eternal Life.

Eternal life is not just unending life. It is the life we now have in God through Jesus. John refers to Jesus Christ Himself as eternal life. It is life that comes from God. A person who has eternal life has God’s life within him.
Eternal life is in Jesus
Apparently, Jesus can blot out names from the book of life
Revelation 3:5
He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels
It is obvious that eternal life doesn’t begin when we die. Jesus said, He who believes in Me has (present tense) everlasting life. He didn’t say that the one who believes in Him will have (future tense) everlasting life. He said that he has eternal life in the here and now from that very first moment of faith. Eternal life is unending life.
Unless of course if one is blotted out...
Revelation 3:5
He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels
Jesus emphasis is that eternal life is a present reality and the present possession of the believer in the here and now. It will have its ultimate fulfillment in the future but every believer has eternal life at the moment they believe in the Son of God.
Jesus also emphasized
Matthew 10:22
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Jesus said I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. (John 10:28).That means nothing or no one can remove a believer from Christ.
Oh yes, sin can and does separate us from Christ...So one must continue to overcome. Else it's the lake of fire Rev 21
1 John 3:5
And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
Rev 21
7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Jesus tells us in John 3:15-16 that whoever believes in Jesus Christ will have eternal life, not might have but actually possesses that everlasting life. If a person is promised eternal life and then to have it taken away then it was never eternal to begin with and it makes Jesus out to be a liar and the promises of God to be false. Below we see more promises the believer can count on for eternal life now and in the future. We can be confident in the promises of God.

John 3:16
16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:36
"He who believes in the Son has eternal life;

John 5:24
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 6:47
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

John 6:54
54 "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.

John 10:27-30
"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29 "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30 "I and the Father are one."
can't happen if one does not endure to the end.
Matt 25:46
"These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
You are misrepresenting the scripture sir...this comes before vs 46...Jesus is selecting those who endured to the end.
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
1 John 5:13
These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

hope this helps,
That does not negate that eternal life is IN Christ...One must still endure to remain in Christ.
Romans 2:7
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
 

civic

Active member
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Well you have 1 verse nice job. And of course those with Eternal Life produce good works having the Holy Spirit in them producing the fruit.
 

zerinus

Member
Well you have 1 verse nice job. And of course those with Eternal Life produce good works having the Holy Spirit in them producing the fruit.
You are reading that backwards. Paul is not saying that once you are "saved," you automatically do those things whether you like it or not. He is saying the exact opposite. He is saying that you do those things in order to be saved. Here is the quote:

Romans 2:

7 To them who by [means of] patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:


In other words, their "eternal life" comes about as a direct result of their seeking for "glory and honour and immortality," by means of "patient continuance in well doing". Calvinism needs to turn the Bible on its head to make its theology work.
 

Newbirth

Member
Well you have 1 verse nice job. And of course those with Eternal Life produce good works having the Holy Spirit in them producing the fruit.
That is not scriptural sir...Eternal life is in Christ you have it backward. One must first be obedient to Christ before being in Christ and continue in well doing to have eternal life...read it slowly... patient continuance in well doing comes before glory honour and immortality, eternal life.
Romans 2:7
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

I noticed that you have been told that already.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
That is not scriptural sir...Eternal life is in Christ you have it backward. One must first be obedient to Christ before being in Christ and continue in well doing to have eternal life...read it slowly... patient continuance in well doing comes before glory honour and immortality, eternal life.
Romans 2:7
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

I noticed that you have been told that already.

Keep reading, until you get to Rom. 3:19-20.

That's okay.... We'll wait.
 

Newbirth

Member
Keep reading, until you get to Rom. 3:19-20.

That's okay.... We'll wait.
nothing there about eternal life...Why are you bringing up Law?

19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

here is what Jesus says on the matter...when asked about inheriting eternal life...

18 And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.

20 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.

21 And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up.

22 Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.
you know the end of that story ...But why is Jesus telling him to do all these things first then follow him?
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
nothing there about eternal life...Why are you bringing up Law?

19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

here is what Jesus says on the matter...when asked about inheriting eternal life...

18 And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.

20 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.

21 And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up.

22 Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.
you know the end of that story ...But why is Jesus telling him to do all these things first then follow him?
<Chuckle>

Let's see....

You quote Rom. 2 (out of context) to try to make a point.
I told you to KEEP READING (the context), until you get to Rom. 3:19-20:

Rom. 3:19 Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God. 20 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.

And you run away to the gospel of John.
Thank you for admitting that you can't deal with Romans.

Have a nice day! :)
 

Septextura

Active member
1 Peter 1

1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:
7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

The elect are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation. No human effort, no human merit.
 

Newbirth

Member
<Chuckle>

Let's see....

You quote Rom. 2 (out of context) to try to make a point.
How is it out of context sir? Are we not discussing eternal life? Please explain how Rom 2:7 is out of context.

I told you to KEEP READING (the context), until you get to Rom. 3:19-20:
Rom 3:19-20 is not in the context of eternal life sir.
Rom. 3:19 Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God. 20 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.
The context in that verse is works of the law sir. No mention of eternal life.
And you run away to the gospel of John.
No, I did not run sir. You are claiming just believe and you will be eternally saved. The scripture does not teach that
Thank you for admitting that you can't deal with Romans.
I made no such admission sir...There is a place for those who do what you are doing sir...
Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Have a nice day! :)
Same to you sir.
 

Newbirth

Member
1 Peter 1



The elect are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation. No human effort, no human merit.
Are you saying that Peter changed his mind in his second epistle?...
1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,

3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;

6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;

7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
How is it out of context sir? Are we not discussing eternal life? Please explain how Rom 2:7 is out of context.


Rom 3:19-20 is not in the context of eternal life sir.

<Chuckle>

So explain to me how Paul allegedly changed the "context" between Rom. 2 and Rom. 3.

And then explain to me how Rom. 2 and Mark 10 are more in the "same context" than Rom. 2 and Rom. 3.

No, I did not run sir. You are claiming just believe and you will be eternally saved. The scripture does not teach that

Then you have never read the Scriptures.

Eph. 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

2 Tim. 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Tit. 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Rom. 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. 6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

(It's too bad you refuse to keep reading past Rom. 2:7, and refuse to continue reading through Rom. 3:19-20 and Rom. 4:1-5.)

Rom. 11:5 So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace. 6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.

(Still in Romans? Who knew? ;) )
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
The term "eternal life," as used in scripture, means more than just a life that "never ends". It is more than just the opposite of a "temporary life". Don't the the devils in hell live "forever" in that condition? If your definition of "eternal life" was correct, then the devils in hell also have "eternal life," because they live "eternally" wherever they happen to be. So "eternal life" is more than just the opposite of a "temporary life".

You are now going beyond the definition of what it means to have "eternal life". At first you say (rightly) that "eternal life" means to live forever with Christ in heaven. Agreed. Then you go on to say that once you have "believed," that eternal destiny is "sealed," and there is nothing that happen that can change it. That is not taught in scripture. That is your own invention.

That is speculative philosophy, not scripture.

I also have some scriptures for you to look at:


Matthew 5:

29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee…


Does that mean that you should literally pluck out your eye?

Matthew 6:

3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth.


Does this mean that one should literally not let his left hand know what his other hand is doing?

Matthew 11:

23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven shalt be brought down to hell …


Does this mean that Capernaum was literally “exalted to heaven”.

Matthew 23:

24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.


Does this mean that they were literally “swallowing a camel”?

Luke 14:

26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.


Does this mean that one should literally hate one’s father and mother, and brothers and sisters, and wife and kids in order to become a disciple of Jesus?

John 12:

19 The Pharisees therefore said among themselves … behold, the world is gone after him.


Did that mean that literally "the whole world" had gone after him?

John 17:

11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee.


Does this mean that Jesus was literally “no more in the world”? Obviously not; he was anticipating that he soon would not be.

Matthew 26:

26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.
27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Mark 14:

22 And as they did eat, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and brake it, and gave to them, and said, Take, eat: this is my body.
23 And he took the cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them: and they all drank of it.
24 And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many.


Does that mean that he was literally offering them his flesh and blood to eat and drink? Obviously not. And how are these verses different from the ones you had quoted? In both cases the language used is hyperbolic. It is not meant to be taken literally. There are other passages of scripture that teach that salvation, or gaining eternal life, are granted with certain preconditions. Faith is one of them, but not the only one. They include faith, repentance, baptism, and "enduring to the end". All of that is taught in the Bible:

"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved" (Mark 16:16).
"he that endureth to the end shall be saved" (Matt. 10:22).
"Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins" (Acts 2:38).
"And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations" (Luke 24:47).
"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven" (Matt. 7:21).
"But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves" (James 1:22)
.

In addition to these of course there are all those verses that teach that even after one has fully accepted the gospel and believed, it is still possible to fall away and be damned, as I have already discussed in this thread. So "once saved, always saved" is a heresy of Calvinism which is false, unbiblical, and untrue.

Congratulations!
You just demonstrated the (obvious) fact that there are metaphors in the Bible.

What you did NOT demonstrate is that any random passage you quote is likewise a "metaphor". This is a logical fallacy called a "non sequitur".
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
John 12:

19 The Pharisees therefore said among themselves … behold, the world is gone after him.


Did that mean that literally "the whole world" had gone after him?

@TomFL , care to discuss this point with @zerinus ?

(Btw, THAT is how you "tag" someone, something you never did with me.
So accept correction. :) )
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Why do you not want to discuss it yourself ?

<sigh>

I've explained that to you many times already.
Matt. 7:6.
It's not my fault you don't pay attention.

As for Tagging

Thanks for the information

So zerinus says that "whole world" doesn't mean "everyone".
Do you wish to argue the point with him?
Or are you only obsessed with me?
 
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