Eternal Life is never lost

TomFL

Well-known member
<sigh>

I've explained that to you many times already.
Matt. 7:6.
It's not my fault you don't pay attention.



So zerinus says that "whole world" doesn't mean "everyone".
Do you wish to argue the point with him?
Or are you only obsessed with me?
There you go with your stealth Mat 7:6 insult

You have a great way of "defending" Calvinism - Not

In any case I am sure you have heard of hyperbole and the fact that context matters
 

Redeemed

Well-known member
This thread is to discuss passages concerning Eternal Life and not other passages so we can stay on topic. If that is to difficult then by all means it can be for another thread or topic.

Eternal life is what its name suggests an unending or everlasting life. If eternal life could be lost then it is misnamed because it wouldn’t really be eternal and be referred to as temporal or conditional life. All who have eternal life will live forever with Christ in heaven. Once you believe in Christ your eternal destiny in God’s kingdom sealed and is guaranteed with Eternal Life.

Eternal life is not just unending life. It is the life we now have in God through Jesus. John refers to Jesus Christ Himself as eternal life. It is life that comes from God. A person who has eternal life has God’s life within him.

It is obvious that eternal life doesn’t begin when we die. Jesus said, He who believes in Me has (present tense) everlasting life. He didn’t say that the one who believes in Him will have (future tense) everlasting life. He said that he has eternal life in the here and now from that very first moment of faith. Eternal life is unending life.

Jesus emphasis is that eternal life is a present reality and the present possession of the believer in the here and now. It will have its ultimate fulfillment in the future but every believer has eternal life at the moment they believe in the Son of God.

Jesus said I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. (John 10:28).That means nothing or no one can remove a believer from Christ.

Jesus tells us in John 3:15-16 that whoever believes in Jesus Christ will have eternal life, not might have but actually possesses that everlasting life. If a person is promised eternal life and then to have it taken away then it was never eternal to begin with and it makes Jesus out to be a liar and the promises of God to be false. Below we see more promises the believer can count on for eternal life now and in the future. We can be confident in the promises of God.

John 3:16
16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:36
"He who believes in the Son has eternal life;

John 5:24
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 6:47
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

John 6:54
54 "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.

John 10:27-30
"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29 "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30 "I and the Father are one."

Matt 25:46
"These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

1 John 5:13
These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

hope this helps,
John 10:10 says ‘I have come that they may have life and may have if abundantly.’ He's given Eternal life to Us right now we were dead to sin Now we have life and now we can be that living sacrifice. glory hallelujah
 
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Theo1689

Well-known member
There you go with your stealth Mat 7:6 insult

Because you WANT me to, apparently.

I've told you the reason I'm not going to get into a theology discussion with you is because of what Matt. 7:6 says.

Knowing this, you CONTINUE asking me why I refuse to engage you, when you KNOW that's the answer.

If you keep asking the same question, you will continue to get the same answer.

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results."
-- Albert Einstein.


You have a great way of "defending" Calvinism - Not

I choose to not "defend" it to you.
THAT'S. THE. POINT.
Matt. 7:6
 

Redeemed

Well-known member
This thread is to discuss passages concerning Eternal Life and not other passages so we can stay on topic. If that is to difficult then by all means it can be for another thread or topic.

Eternal life is what its name suggests an unending or everlasting life. If eternal life could be lost then it is misnamed because it wouldn’t really be eternal and be referred to as temporal or conditional life. All who have eternal life will live forever with Christ in heaven. Once you believe in Christ your eternal destiny in God’s kingdom sealed and is guaranteed with Eternal Life.

Eternal life is not just unending life. It is the life we now have in God through Jesus. John refers to Jesus Christ Himself as eternal life. It is life that comes from God. A person who has eternal life has God’s life within him.

It is obvious that eternal life doesn’t begin when we die. Jesus said, He who believes in Me has (present tense) everlasting life. He didn’t say that the one who believes in Him will have (future tense) everlasting life. He said that he has eternal life in the here and now from that very first moment of faith. Eternal life is unending life.

Jesus emphasis is that eternal life is a present reality and the present possession of the believer in the here and now. It will have its ultimate fulfillment in the future but every believer has eternal life at the moment they believe in the Son of God.

Jesus said I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. (John 10:28).That means nothing or no one can remove a believer from Christ.

Jesus tells us in John 3:15-16 that whoever believes in Jesus Christ will have eternal life, not might have but actually possesses that everlasting life. If a person is promised eternal life and then to have it taken away then it was never eternal to begin with and it makes Jesus out to be a liar and the promises of God to be false. Below we see more promises the believer can count on for eternal life now and in the future. We can be confident in the promises of God.

John 3:16
16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:36
"He who believes in the Son has eternal life;

John 5:24
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 6:47
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

John 6:54
54 "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.

John 10:27-30
"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29 "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30 "I and the Father are one."

Matt 25:46
"These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

1 John 5:13
These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

hope this helps,
I just had this preached to me by my favorite preacher Dr. David Jeremiah from his new study "Forward-Finding God's purpose in your tomorrow". I know that we have eternal life right now as Christians and I've known it for a long time. But to hear him preach it made it really hit home. And your OP here is really good confirmation for me. So yes this helps thank you. I see that the jackals are already on the attack but it looks like the Big Dogs have it covered.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Because you WANT me to, apparently.

I've told you the reason I'm not going to get into a theology discussion with you is because of what Matt. 7:6 says.

Knowing this, you CONTINUE asking me why I refuse to engage you, when you KNOW that's the answer.

If you keep asking the same question, you will continue to get the same answer.

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results."
-- Albert Einstein.




I choose to not "defend" it to you.
THAT'S. THE. POINT.
Matt. 7:6
one excuse is as good as another

It really is rather funny how you will pop into the middle of a discussion

display hubris, offer an insult, make claims of error and then refuse to response when challenged on a point of theology or proving your point

have a good day
 

Septextura

Well-known member
It should be noted that faith is also kept by the power of God, the Power of the Holy Spirit because its His fruit !

Amen.

Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
 

zerinus

Well-known member
<sigh>

I've explained that to you many times already.
Matt. 7:6.
It's not my fault you don't pay attention.


So zerinus says that "whole world" doesn't mean "everyone".
Do you wish to argue the point with him?
Or are you only obsessed with me?
It will depend on the context. In this case, the context makes it obvious that it is not meant to be taken literally. In other cases the context makes it obvious that it is meant to be taken literally. When it says that Jesus died for the sins of the world, not only the immediate context, but the context of the rest of the Bible makes it clear that it is meant to be taken literally.
 

Redeemed

Well-known member
Already But Not Yet.

Do we have eternal life right now? Yes

Do we have a hope of eternal life? Yes


I clearly see that eternal life is a promise to all obedient believers (although spoken of as a present possession due to the certainty of it), but the actual possession of everlasting life is reserved in heaven. (That's the Not Yet)


Peter said we are begotten again unto a lively hope to "an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you" (1 Pet. 1:3-4).


From the (Already) passages on eternal life in 1 John, we can readily see that 1 John 2:25 explains what John meant in 1 John 5:11, 13. John shows in 2:25 that we have eternal life in promise - in prospect. This is an inspired and infallible exposition of those verses in the 5th chapter.

We have eternal life right now because we know that if we die right now we immediately go and be with Jesus.

We know that we have eternal life in the future because if we die year from now we go immediately and be with Jesus.

I'm still studying this out (And having a good time:))if I find out more I will post it or if you have more please tell me.
 

zerinus

Well-known member
Already But Not Yet.

Do we have eternal life right now? Yes

Do we have a hope of eternal life? Yes
Those two statements are self-contradictory. If you already have eternal life right now, what reason do you have to "hope" for it in the future? And why would you want to "hope" for it in the future, if you already have it right now?
 

Redeemed

Well-known member
Already But Not Yet.

Do we have eternal life right now? Yes

Do we have a hope of eternal life? Yes


I clearly see that eternal life is a promise to all obedient believers (although spoken of as a present possession due to the certainty of it), but the actual possession of everlasting life is reserved in heaven. (That's the Not Yet)


Peter said we are begotten again unto a lively hope to "an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you" (1 Pet. 1:3-4).


From the (Already) passages on eternal life in 1 John, we can readily see that 1 John 2:25 explains what John meant in 1 John 5:11, 13. John shows in 2:25 that we have eternal life in promise - in prospect. This is an inspired and infallible exposition of those verses in the 5th chapter.

We have eternal life right now because we know that if we die right now we immediately go and be with Jesus.

We know that we have eternal life in the future because if we die year from now we go immediately and be with Jesus.

I'm still studying this out (And having a good time:))if I find out more I will post it or if you have more please tell me.
When Jesus calls Himself the light of life in John 8:12, He is again pointing His listeners to a present experience and not a future hope. His promise is not limited to a possession. He is not saying they will simply become sharers in eternal life or possessors of eternal life. He is saying that they will experience life as they “walk” through life. Especially when I have my dogs with me. Which is every morning because they're not going let me have any peace till he get their walk. They have me trained very well.
 

zerinus

Well-known member
John 10:10 says ‘I have come that they may have life and may have if abundantly.’ He's given Eternal life to Us right now we were dead to sin Now we have life and now we can be that living sacrifice. glory hallelujah
He also said:

"And now I am no more in the world, ..." (John 17:11)

Does that mean that he was literally “no more in the world”? He also said:

"he that endureth to the end shall be saved" (Matt. 10:22).

Why don't you have any room for that in your theology?
 

zerinus

Well-known member
When Jesus calls Himself the light of life in John 8:12, He is again pointing His listeners to a present experience and not a future hope. His promise is not limited to a possession. He is not saying they will simply become sharers in eternal life or possessors of eternal life. He is saying that they will experience life as they “walk” through life. Especially when I have my dogs with me. Which is every morning because they're not going let me have any peace till he get their walk. They have me trained very well.
Hebrews 6:4-8; 10:26-29; 2 Peter 2:20-22 also teach that it is possible to have all of that in this life, and still lose it in the next. Why is that not included in your theology? Why is it that your theology has to be so biblically selective for it to work?
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
He also said:

"And now I am no more in the world, ..." (John 17:11)

Does that mean that he was literally “no more in the world”? He also said:

"he that endureth to the end shall be saved" (Matt. 10:22).

Why don't you have any room for that in your theology?
He that endureth to the end shall be saved, his enduring to the end proves that he was in a saved state all the while and was being preserved by the power of God. God gets the credit !
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Hebrews 6:4-8; 10:26-29; 2 Peter 2:20-22 also teach that it is possible to have all of that in this life, and still lose it in the next. Why is that not included in your theology? Why is it that your theology has to be so biblically selective for it to work?
Thats false, thats your imagination running wild now
 

JDS

Well-known member
The man who wants to argue that one can "lose his salvation" probably has never had it. Salvation is a gift of God given to those who believe in Jesus Christ and what he did for us by paying our sin debt on the cross. In Romans 8 we see the ministries of the Godhead, if you will, in our salvation. God, the judge of all the earth, justifies the believer in Christ. The Spirit of God indwells the believer in Christ, and we are told in verse 9 that the Spirit is life. He is the agent of the quickening of the body in the same way that he is the quickening agent at the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead. He really was dead for three days and was not alive again until early on Sunday morning when the Spirit and soul entered into his body. The Spirit of God came from heaven and the soul came from hell and the body was glorified in the same way our new body will be glorified at the redemption of the body, the resurrection, the rapture, if you will. Thirdly, it is Christ who died and risen again according to the passage in Romans 8.
Another wonderful thing about this salvation is that we are born as sons of God by the indwelling Spirit of God and of Christ. It says so in the text. As a son of God we are made heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ. Since, for the church, the inheritance is in heaven we must wait for the resurrection before we can lay hold on the inheritance. Since the church is one with Christ and also the bride of Christ, all his inheritance will be equally ours.
God makes sense in his revelations and his truths are reasonable and logical. Consider this; If being alive or quickened is having the Spirit of God in your body as the third part of your being, body, soul, and Holy Ghost, doesn't it make sense that to be a body and soul but without the Spirit, who is life, is the definition of being dead. Then, isn't spiritual death easily defined as being separated from God's presence in your body. That was true in both Adam and Jesus Christ.

Consider this; there were only two men before the resurrection of Christ who possessed the Holy Spirit in their bodies whose presence in them made them sons of God and in his trinitarian image and likeness. Adam was one and we are told he was the son of God in Lk 3:38. The other, of course, was Jesus Christ and the gospel of John was written by him, he said in Jn 20:30-31, to record the miracles that proves that Jesus is the son of God and that we may have life through his name. Remember, "life" is a person. There is no doubt that Adam had life when he was created. He had a soul and the Spirit indwelling his body. He was in the image of God and the image of God is a trinity. This is what being in the image of God means. Jesus Christ is said to be the express image of God in Hebrews 1:1-2 and John the Baptist said in Jn 3 that God gave not the Spirit by measure unto him.

Who could die with the Spirit in them? The Spirit is life. Well, two men died who possessed the Spirit of God. Adam and Jesus Christ. They both died for the same reason, because of sin. One for his own sin and the other for the sins of others. However, when they died a physical death the Spirit had already departed their physical bodies. I can hear someone objecting now but I will remind you that the scriptures said Jesus Christ was dead and he was not made alive until he came out of the tomb after the Spirit quickened him. God called this a birth in his bible. The Spirit had departed his body at 12:00 noon and the world turned dark and his soul departed his body at 3:00 PM on the day he was crucified. He suffered spiritual and physical death just as did Adam. But Jesus rose from the dead.

Now, everyone needs to pause and read some scripture;

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

Spiritual death means the Spirit of God is not in the body. Physical death means the soul is not in the body. All men born of Adam are born in his image after he died spiritually. They were body and soul. See gen 5:1-3 now. The resurrection of Jesus Christ confirms the promise that God would send his Spirit as the gift of life to as many as would believe him and trust in Jesus Christ as their sin offering.

Now, about sin in the Christian and whether it condemns someone whom God has declared just through the awful death of his Son. God says, "now, there is no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus. "In Christ Jesus" is a particular doctrine of the faith. Jesus Christ took away the sin of the world. Peanut Gallery might be the only poster on this board who believes that. His wrath against sin, and therefore the sinner, has been spent on his Son on the cross. All men may come to him on the strength of that sacrifice and be received of God and forgiven because God is not imputing sin to the sinner,. If he did still impute sin then it is a sure bet that Jesus Christ did not propitiate God and sin is still charged to the individual. As it stands now, God sees Jesus as taking the sins of the whole world away and no one will be judged while they live. If they die without coming to God through Christ then they will perish. Heb 9:27 says, for as it is appointed unto man once to die, but after this the judgment.

Think about it. God, because of the cross of Christ, does not even impute sin to those who have not trusted in Christ who are alive and Pentecostalism comes along and says even those in Christ are in danger. How many times must Jesus pay the price for sinners. He did once for all time and it is sufficient.

One should read 2 Cor 5 before commenting. I have more to say about this wonderful saviour, Jesus Christ. May he be exalted and glorified by all.
 
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zerinus

Well-known member
The man who wants to argue that one can "lose his salvation" probably has never had it. ...

* * *
You are barking up the wrong tree with that one. My argument is not that anybody can "lose their salvation". My argument is that nobody has it in this life to be able to lose it. According to the words of Jesus, "salvation" is something that is obtained in the next life after one has "endured to the end" in this life. The purpose of this life is to "endure to the end". Salvation and eternal life is reserved for the next life, not this one.
 
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