Eternal life......when?

Sethproton

Well-known member
Okay, here is the full quote in context:

Galatians 2:

19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.


I see quite a lot of figures of speech and metaphorical language there. For example, what does he mean when he says, “I am crucified with Christ”? Obviously it is not meant to be taken literally. I take that to mean that he lives a life of sacrifice to God. Then in the continuation he adds, “nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me,” which is another obvious metaphor and figure of speech, for which he provides the explanation as follows: “and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God.” In other words, what he means by “Christ liveth in me” is that he lives by the faith of the Son of God. So where do you read into that him saying that he already has eternal life while living in the flesh here in this world? I don’t. Elsewhere Paul has said:

1 Corinthians 9:

27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.


So Paul himself recognizes that his salvation is not guaranteed unless he “keep under his body” and “bring it into subjection”. So what he means by “Christ liveth in me” in Galatians 2:20 cannot be that he already has eternal life in this world, otherwise why should he want to be fearful that if he doesn’t do the right thing, he might himself become a “castaway”? So going back to you original question:


It depends on context in which that expression occurs. In the context of Galatians 2:20, it means that he lives by faith in Jesus Christ. That is the explanation that himself provides. He is not saying that he already has eternal life while living in the flesh here in this world. That is the answer to your question.
That's a lot of words without addressing the actual question.
What literal truth is being expressed by "Christ lives in me"?
If you are saying that means to live by faith in Jesus, you did not support that idea
 

zerinus

Well-known member
That's a lot of words without addressing the actual question.
The way your question is framed necessitates an explanation.
What literal truth is being expressed by "Christ lives in me"?
That he lives “by the faith of the Son of God”. That is in his own words.
If you are saying that means to live by faith in Jesus, you did not support that idea
I think that I did. Where do you get the idea from the context that it means what you think it does? That is the question that you need to answer before objecting to my explanation.
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
The way your question is framed necessitates an explanation.

That he lives “by the faith of the Son of God”. That is in his own words.

I think that I did.
Christ lives in me does not mean I live by faith.
The first is what Christ does, the second is what we do.
 

zerinus

Well-known member
Christ lives in me does not mean I live by faith.
The first is what Christ does, the second is what we do.
The question is not what you mean by it, but what Paul meant by it; and you don’t have to look very far, because he tells us.
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
The question is not what you mean by it, but what Paul meant by it; and you don’t have to look very far, because he tells us.
Are you saying paul is irrational and uses language contrary to its meaning to make spiritual points? Or can we look simply at what he writes, knowing the definition of his words and thereby understanding the intent?
Your explanation is not rational, not based on the grammar and the meaning of words.
 

Dizerner

Active member
Are you saying paul is irrational and uses language contrary to its meaning to make spiritual points? Or can we look simply at what he writes, knowing the definition of his words and thereby understanding the intent?
Your explanation is not rational, not based on the grammar and the meaning of words.

Or maybe we actually need the Holy Spirit since all words can be interpreted endless ways.

The whole vision has become to you like the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one who is literate, saying, "Read this, please." And he says, "I cannot, for it is sealed." (Isa 29:11 NKJ)
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
Or maybe we actually need the Holy Spirit since all words can be interpreted endless ways.

The whole vision has become to you like the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one who is literate, saying, "Read this, please." And he says, "I cannot, for it is sealed." (Isa 29:11 NKJ)
Are you claiming that God gave you that irrational, illogical understanding of paul's words which is contrary to the literal meanings of the words?
 

TomFL

Well-known member
It's a very simple answer, and I've answered it MANY times.
It's sad that you have to try to harass people by trying to force them into a conversation, and then make an entire thread simply to attack them.... How "Christian" of you.... NOT.

AFTER the Holy Spirit (1) regenerates a person, He (2) gives the person faith, and THEN (3) they have eternal life.

That's the order:
(1) regeneration;
(2) faith;
(3) eternal life.

I've also presented this order in this format, MANY times:

regeneration --> faith --> eternal life

The answer is not going to change, simply because you don't like it.
Unfortunately for you scripture places faith before regeneration



1Pet. 1:23 since you have been born again, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God;
1Cor. 4:15 For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel.
James 1:18
18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
 

harfad

New Member
What passage are you referring to that states eternal life is given on judgement day, I'd like to see what you are looking at.
Since he hasn't replied, I will try!

John 5:28-30 Easy-to-Read Version

"Don’t be surprised at this. A time is coming when all people who are dead and in their graves will hear his voice. Then they will come out of their graves. Those who did good in this life will rise and have eternal life. But those who did evil will rise to be judged guilty."

Is that a good answer do you think?
 

Dizerner

Active member
On another thread I asked this simple question to a staunch Calvinists....and typically he evaded and did not answer my simple question. So I open the question to any and all Calvinists........

When the Holy Spirit regenerates a spiritually dead man.......does the now regenerate man possess eternal life?

This is a divisive thread, posted to incite division.

The adjective is describing the quality not the quantity of the life.

That is, it is the kind of life experienced in eternity, not the kind of life that lasts for eternity.

Adam had eternal life in the garden and yet died.
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
Since he hasn't replied, I will try!

John 5:28-30 Easy-to-Read Version

"Don’t be surprised at this. A time is coming when all people who are dead and in their graves will hear his voice. Then they will come out of their graves. Those who did good in this life will rise and have eternal life. But those who did evil will rise to be judged guilty."

Is that a good answer do you think?
you could be right that, that is what the posters is referring to.
It is a strange passage as on the surface it seems at odds with the idea that when we die we are face to face with jesus. To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.
I wonder why Jesus expresses Himself this way. It may be that early in His ministry he is keeping truth veiled?
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
The adjective is describing the quality not the quantity of the life.

That is, it is the kind of life experienced in eternity, not the kind of life that lasts for eternity.

Adam had eternal life in the garden and yet died.
Adam had eternal life? According to what verse? What we find to the contrary is that he was thwarted from eating from the tree of life, to prevent Him from living forever. At least that is what i remember without looking it up.
 

harfad

New Member
you could be right that, that is what the posters is referring to.
It is a strange passage as on the surface it seems at odds with the idea that when we die we are face to face with jesus. To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.
I wonder why Jesus expresses Himself this way. It may be that early in His ministry he is keeping truth veiled?
It is not the only one though, here is another:

Matthew 25:34 Easy-to-Read Version

"Then the king will say to the godly people on his right, ‘Come, my Father has great blessings for you. The kingdom he promised is now yours. It has been prepared for you since the world was made.'"
 

Dizerner

Active member
Adam had eternal life? According to what verse? What we find to the contrary is that he was thwarted from eating from the tree of life, to prevent Him from living forever. At least that is what i remember without looking it up.

If eternal life was only life that was infinitely long, we could never be said to HAVE eternal life until infinity time had passed.

Satan knew that only if they trespass would they die; that means if they don't, they live forever.
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
It is not the only one though, here is another:

Matthew 25:34 Easy-to-Read Version

"Then the king will say to the godly people on his right, ‘Come, my Father has great blessings for you. The kingdom he promised is now yours. It has been prepared for you since the world was made.'"
Yes, although it assumes they are ready for the kingdom as it is not speaking of giving life, but giving a place to live.
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
If eternal life was only life that was infinitely long, we could never be said to HAVE eternal life until infinity time had passed.

Satan knew that only if they trespass would they die; that means if they don't, they live foreve
The tree of life speaks of Christ. That tree is a metaphor for Jesus. You and I have discussed this idea recently that you think Jesus being life is a metaphoric statement. I think it is literal.
 

Dizerner

Active member
The tree of life speaks of Christ. That tree is a metaphor for Jesus. You and I have discussed this idea recently that you think Jesus being life is a metaphoric statement. I think it is literal.

Huh. That was the Mormon not me, Seth. Nobody thinks Jesus is real, actual life more than me (laughs).

Anyway, the argument of eternal life proving eternal security seems very ad hoc to me, like when the Calvinist says “You don’t believe in an actual atonement you only believe in a potential atonement?”

The atonement can be both a actual and potential. I would say it’s just the same thing about eternal life; it’s an actual potential.
 

Oldsaint24

Well-known member
The adjective is describing the quality not the quantity of the life.

That is, it is the kind of life experienced in eternity, not the kind of life that lasts for eternity.

Adam had eternal life in the garden and yet died.
Adam is not a proper analogy. Adam was created. Adam had spiritual life........and no sin. Adam's willful sin is the reason he died spiritually and lost the ability to live forever. We are born, corrupt, spiritually dead, without spiritual life......without a spirit.

So, what we have now is the act of regeneration of a new spirit by the Holy Spirit restoring the children of promise back into the image and likeness of God. The question now is........is that new spiritual life eternal? I say, "yes". Absolutely. And we are not under the same conditions as Adam, who did die spiritually when he sinned.

If we could sin and die spiritually as in the example of Adam.........we all would die........because we all would sin, as did Adam. And the sacrificial death of Jesus would be of none effect. Otherwise , Jesus would have to die , continually, and the children of promise would have to be regenerated to life again and again.

Once God has begun a good work he will perform it to the end. Sin and death entered once into the world by Adam. Justification for a new spirit and new life is provided , once by the sacrifice and the blood of the Lamb of God.

Regeneration of a new spirit and life by the Holy Spirit is eternal. God does not and will not fail his children.
 
Top