Eternal life......when?

T

TomFL

Guest
Are believers chosen unto Faith or in view of their Faith? In other words is Election unconditional or conditional? Does God choose who will be saved, apart from their decision and effort, or does he choose those whom he knows will trust and obey?

Paul answers your question

Ephesians 1:4 (KJV)
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:


Election is in Christ

that is being conditioned upon being in Christ

which is by faith

Ephesians 1:13 (ESV)
13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,


So to answer your question above here, let's look at Scripture. In Ephesians 1 we read this:

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, 4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, 8 which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight 9 making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ 10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.

11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, 12 so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guaranteed of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

God chose us before the foundation of the world, according to his purpose and will.
God chose the church collectively to be holy and blameless before him in love

All, that is in Ephesians is written to the faithful in Christ

Ephesians 1:1 (ESV)
1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus, and are faithful in Christ Jesus:

Arminians will appeal to God's foreknowledge

In either case it is chosen to be holy and blameless not to be in Christ

That is a promise for those in Christ

not a selection of those who should be in Christ for no apparent reason






Romans 9:16 It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.

That is a verse ripped from its context

Romans 9:15-16 (ESV)
15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”
16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.

All it really states is God determines the grounds upon which he will have mercy

In context his mercy is consistent with his covenantal plans

it is no secret who receives salvific mercy in Romans 9

Romans 9:30-32 (ESV)

30 What shall we say, then? That Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it, that is, a righteousness that is by faith;
31 but that Israel who pursued a law that would lead to righteousness did not succeed in reaching that law.
32 Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone,

and why some fall short


You have a water down version of the human plight after the Fall, which is why it affects your view of God's election and Grace!

This is just rhetoric

I can just as easily say you have a view held by no one in the church until Augustine with his stoic, gnostic, Manichean background introduced it

Stick to the bible
These are Gospel passages, and we do not deny them. Yes, they must be preached to every sinner. But I ask you, why do a lot of people reject the Gospel, and some accept and believe?
They have free will

Why did Adam sin and Satan rebel ?
 

Ladodgers6

Well-known member
Paul answers your question

Ephesians 1:4 (KJV)
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:


Election is in Christ

that is being conditioned upon being in Christ

which is by faith
So you are a universalist, correct? You believe that everyone possesses faith, a FREE WILL per se to chose God, correct?

The reason I ask is because, you pick and chose what fits your beliefs. You completely ignore or suppress, rather the truth of God's will. Read here: 4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves.

He chose us in HIM before the foundation of the world. What is Paul saying here TomFL? This is the Covenant of Redemption between the Trinity. God's Promise in the Gospel to redeem HIS people from their sins! Ezekiel 36 God said I will be your God, and you will be my people. And to be holy and blameless in his sight. How this is possible for sinners, TomFL? By sending the Last Adam to fulfill His Father's will by fulfilling the Law for us, to remove the curse of condemnation from the Original Sin in the Garden, by becoming a curse for us! To reconcile us to the Father through His Cross and Blood, so that we restored, and found holy and blameless because of Christ! In accordance with HIS PLEASURE AND WILL!
To the praise of HIS GLORIOUS GRACE! Do you know what GRACE is? Which HE (GOD) has FREELY given in the ONE he loves; namely Christ Jesus!

So TomFL, I'll ask you this. Why does one have to be reborn of the Spirit? Why does God say in Ezekiel 36 that he gives us his Spirit, and replaces our heart of stone, with a heart of flesh? Why does Jesus says he has set us free from bondage of sin?
Ephesians 1:13 (ESV)
13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,



God chose the church collectively to be holy and blameless before him in love

All, that is in Ephesians is written to the faithful in Christ
So then how is a individual sinner saved? Or is it universalism here? Who is the church? Why don't all believe if all have the power to believe? Everyone must be given the same truth to believe, yes? So why do some reject the truth, while others believe?
Ephesians 1:1 (ESV)
1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus, and are faithful in Christ Jesus:

Arminians will appeal to God's foreknowledge

In either case it is chosen to be holy and blameless not to be in Christ

That is a promise for those in Christ

not a selection of those who should be in Christ for no apparent reason
This absolutely makes no sense to me. Either everyone has the same power to believe or they don't.
That is a verse ripped from its context

Romans 9:15-16 (ESV)
15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”
16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.

All it really states is God determines the grounds upon which he will have mercy

In context his mercy is consistent with his covenantal plans
Which is?
it is no secret who receives salvific mercy in Romans 9

Romans 9:30-32 (ESV)

30 What shall we say, then? That Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it, that is, a righteousness that is by faith;
31 but that Israel who pursued a law that would lead to righteousness did not succeed in reaching that law.
32 Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone,

and why some fall short




This is just rhetoric

I can just as easily say you have a view held by no one in the church until Augustine with his stoic, gnostic, Manichean background introduced it

Stick to the bible

They have free will

Why did Adam sin and Satan rebel ?
I beg to differ. The Scriptures teach this. And this is not rhetoric TomFL. You say this because it causes problems for your theology. And your questions here, I see you do not know the topics of these debates. You really need to go and do some homework and research.

But here I will answer your questions. Adam fell by His own FREE WILL. He was not forced to sin. God created upright and good. But our will after the Fall is in bondage to sin, death, and condemnation!
 
T

TomFL

Guest
So you are a universalist, correct? You believe that everyone possesses faith, a FREE WILL per se to chose God, correct?
No How did you come to such a silly conclusion from what I stated

Paul answers your question

Ephesians 1:4 (KJV)
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:


Election is in Christ

that is being conditioned upon being in Christ

which is by faith

Ephesians 1:13 (ESV)
13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
'
You have not dealt with the fact men are in Christ when they believe

These are chosen to be holy and blameless before God and to be predestined as sons

The reason I ask is because, you pick and chose what fits your beliefs. You completely ignore or suppress, rather the truth of God's will. Read here: 4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves.
Sorry you have not proven that

He chose in Christ

Not men for no apparent reason but those in Christ

Either the church collectively or men individually based on foreknowledge

You just can't assume it was for no apparent reason

He chose us in HIM before the foundation of the world. What is Paul saying here TomFL?

Who are the the us but the faithful in Christ Paul is writing to

Ephesians 1:1 (ESV)
1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus, and are faithful in Christ Jesus:


Did he chose them to be in Christ or did he chose them to be holy and blameless'
The verse clearly states he chose them to be holy and blameless



This is the Covenant of Redemption between the Trinity. God's Promise in the Gospel to redeem HIS people from their sins! Ezekiel 36 God said I will be your God, and you will be my people. And to be holy and blameless in his sight. How this is possible for sinners, TomFL? By sending the Last Adam to fulfill His Father's will by fulfilling the Law for us, to remove the curse of condemnation from the Original Sin in the Garden, by becoming a curse for us! To reconcile us to the Father through His Cross and Blood, so that we restored, and found holy and blameless because of Christ! In accordance with HIS PLEASURE AND WILL!


Yes because of Christ. Those in Christ would be holy and blameless before God in love and predestined to adoption as sons

You have provided nothing to show his will was to save men for no apparent reason

and that idea is contrary to scripture

1 Corinthians 1:21 (ESV)
21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe.

he saves those that believe

He reveals his covenant to those that fear him

Psalm 25:14 (KJV)
14 The secret of the LORD is with them that fear him; and he will shew them his covenant.

His mercy on them that fear him

Luke 1:50 (KJV)
50 And his mercy is on them that fear him from generation to generation.



To the praise of HIS GLORIOUS GRACE! Do you know what GRACE is? Which HE (GOD) has FREELY given in the ONE he loves; namely Christ Jesus!

So TomFL, I'll ask you this. Why does one have to be reborn of the Spirit? Why does God say in Ezekiel 36 that he gives us his Spirit, and replaces our heart of stone, with a heart of flesh? Why does Jesus says he has set us free from bondage of sin?

One must be born of the spirit as to set us free from sin's power

not to believe

as God begets those who believe the gospel

James 1:18 (KJV)
18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

1 Peter 1:23 (KJV)
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

1 Corinthians 4:15 (KJV)
15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.


So then how is a individual sinner saved? Or is it universalism here? Who is the church? Why don't all believe if all have the power to believe? Everyone must be given the same truth to believe, yes? So why do some reject the truth, while others believe?

This absolutely makes no sense to me. Either everyone has the same power to believe or they don't.

Which is?

all do not believe because of their Free will

Why did Adam sin and Satan rebel ?

A sinner is saved by God when he has faith in the gospel

John 20:31 (KJV)
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

John 5:40 (KJV)
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

John 3:14-16 (KJV)
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

etc etc etc

The church is the collective body of those who are in Christ



I beg to differ. The Scriptures teach this. And this is not rhetoric TomFL. You say this because it causes problems for your theology. And your questions here, I see you do not know the topics of these debates. You really need to go and do some homework and research.

Beg all you want. I stated

it is no secret who receives salvific mercy in Romans 9

Romans 9:30-32 (ESV)

30 What shall we say, then? That Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it, that is, a righteousness that is by faith;
31 but that Israel who pursued a law that would lead to righteousness did not succeed in reaching that law.
32 Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone,


care to rebut that ?

and why some fall short

Free will


And responded to your rhetoric

You have a water down version of the human plight after the Fall, which is why it affects your view of God's election and Grace!

I can just as easily say you have a view held by no one in the church until Augustine with his stoic, gnostic, Manichean background introduced it

You see I have the same view as the church for the first 400 years of its existence

They all taught free will

BTW you never did address that fact


But here I will answer your questions. Adam fell by His own FREE WILL. He was not forced to sin. God created upright and good. But our will after the Fall is in bondage to sin, death, and condemnation!

So your Calvinistic Determinism does not hold God determined all things

Good That's a start

But the bible does not teach man is morally unable to believe the gospel

as I post in my signature link

 

Ladodgers6

Well-known member
No How did you come to such a silly conclusion from what I stated
TomFL, you bring nothing new to these debates. Your semi-pelagian view brings you to this conclusion. You should go back and studying heresies of church history.
Paul answers your question

Ephesians 1:4 (KJV)
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Yes, God chose us in Christ, not because of anything we do, but because of God's election.
Election is in Christ

that is being conditioned upon being in Christ

which is by faith
TomFL, its based upon God's election to be in Christ! And Faith & Grace are FREE GIFTS from God in Christ.
Ephesians 1:13 (ESV)
13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
'
You have not dealt with the fact men are in Christ when they believe

These are chosen to be holy and blameless before God and to be predestined as sons
Sorry you have not proven that

He chose in Christ

Not men for no apparent reason but those in Christ

Either the church collectively or men individually based on foreknowledge

You just can't assume it was for no apparent reason



Who are the the us but the faithful in Christ Paul is writing to
Can't you see that this is all God's doing through a Promise, an Oath, a Covenant of Grace? Read Ezekiel 36.
Ephesians 1:1 (ESV)
1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus, and are faithful in Christ Jesus:


Did he chose them to be in Christ or did he chose them to be holy and blameless'
The verse clearly states he chose them to be holy and blameless






Yes because of Christ. Those in Christ would be holy and blameless before God in love and predestined to adoption as sons

You have provided nothing to show his will was to save men for no apparent reason

and that idea is contrary to scripture
It seems to me that you are not reading my comments.
1 Corinthians 1:21 (ESV)
21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe.

he saves those that believe

He reveals his covenant to those that fear him

Psalm 25:14 (KJV)
14 The secret of the LORD is with them that fear him; and he will shew them his covenant.

His mercy on them that fear him

Luke 1:50 (KJV)
50 And his mercy is on them that fear him from generation to generation.





One must be born of the spirit as to set us free from sin's power

not to believe

as God begets those who believe the gospel

James 1:18 (KJV)
18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

1 Peter 1:23 (KJV)
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

1 Corinthians 4:15 (KJV)
15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.




all do not believe because of their Free will

Why did Adam sin and Satan rebel ?

A sinner is saved by God when he has faith in the gospel

John 20:31 (KJV)
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

John 5:40 (KJV)
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

John 3:14-16 (KJV)
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

etc etc etc

The church is the collective body of those who are in Christ





Beg all you want. I stated

it is no secret who receives salvific mercy in Romans 9

Romans 9:30-32 (ESV)

30 What shall we say, then? That Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it, that is, a righteousness that is by faith;
31 but that Israel who pursued a law that would lead to righteousness did not succeed in reaching that law.
32 Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone,


care to rebut that ?

and why some fall short

Free will


And responded to your rhetoric



I can just as easily say you have a view held by no one in the church until Augustine with his stoic, gnostic, Manichean background introduced it

You see I have the same view as the church for the first 400 years of its existence

They all taught free will

BTW you never did address that fact




So your Calvinistic Determinism does not hold God determined all things

Good That's a start

But the bible does not teach man is morally unable to believe the gospel

as I post in my signature link

Romans 9:16 causes your premise a lot of problems.

16 It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.

Romans 9:11 Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand:

Your Semi-Pelagain view was been condemned several times by the church.
 
T

TomFL

Guest
TomFL, you bring nothing new to these debates. Your semi-pelagian view brings you to this conclusion. You should go back and studying heresies of church history.
Semi Pelagian believed they could initiate salvation and God's grace would come in later

I believe grace comes first so you start off poorly


Yes, God chose us in Christ, not because of anything we do, but because of God's election.

TomFL, its based upon God's election to be in Christ! And Faith & Grace are FREE GIFTS from God in Christ.

Can't you see that this is all God's doing through a Promise, an Oath, a Covenant of Grace? Read Ezekiel 36.
Election is in Christ

In other words it encompasses those who are in Christ

Men are in Christ through faith Eph 1:13





It seems to me that you are not reading my comments.

Romans 9:16 causes your premise a lot of problems.

16 It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.

It causes me no problems at all

You just assume God's mercy means election to salvation is for no apparent reason

That is an assumption

It is stated nowhere inb the text

Further there is an equivocation here regarding election

All election is not to salvation

Israel was an election nation

Not for salvation but to be in the lineage which would bear messiah and fulfill God's promise to bless all the nations in Abraham




Romans 9:11 Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand:

Your Semi-Pelagain view was been condemned several times by the church.

Rom 9:11 does not help you

You assume it is salvation but it is the selection of a nation Israel for service

Jacob - Israel was the chosen nation

Esau Edom rejected from the lineage

all Israel was not saved

There is no evidence all Edom was reprobate

Finally you ignored many of the verses I posted

especially these in the link


and assumed a convenient interpretation in others

Your verses cause no problem at all for they do not say what your theology holds
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
Eternal life.... when?
On another thread I asked this simple question to a staunch Calvinists....and typically he evaded and did not answer my simple question. So I open the question to any and all Calvinists........

When the Holy Spirit regenerates a spiritually dead man.......does the now regenerate man possess eternal life?

This is a divisive thread, posted to incite division.

28 Peter said, “Behold, we have left our own homes and followed You.” 29 And He said to them, “Truly I say to you, there is no one who has left house or wife or brothers or parents or children, for the sake of the kingdom of God, 30 who will not receive many times as much at this time, and in the age to come, eternal life.” Luke 18

But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; 33 and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left. 34 “Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.... 46 These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” Matthew 25

But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the Day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who will render to each person according to his works: 7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life... on the Day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus. Romans 2

For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. Galatians 6:8

7 so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. Titus 3:7

24 For in hope we have been saved, but hope that is realized is not hope; for who hopes for what is already realized? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, with perseverance we wait eagerly for it. Romans 8:24-25

keep yourselves in the love of God, eagerly awaiting for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life. Jude 1:21

Let the cherry picking and confirmation bias routines begin.
 

Oldsaint24

Well-known member
Eternal life.... when?


28 Peter said, “Behold, we have left our own homes and followed You.” 29 And He said to them, “Truly I say to you, there is no one who has left house or wife or brothers or parents or children, for the sake of the kingdom of God, 30 who will not receive many times as much at this time, and in the age to come, eternal life.” Luke 18

But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; 33 and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left. 34 “Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.... 46 These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” Matthew 25

But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the Day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who will render to each person according to his works: 7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life... on the Day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus. Romans 2

For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. Galatians 6:8

7 so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. Titus 3:7

24 For in hope we have been saved, but hope that is realized is not hope; for who hopes for what is already realized? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, with perseverance we wait eagerly for it. Romans 8:24-25

keep yourselves in the love of God, eagerly awaiting for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life. Jude 1:21

Let the cherry picking and confirmation bias routines begin.
Pretty sure all your "eternal" lifes are mistranslated and should properly be read "age lasting" life. Just so you know.
 
T

TomFL

Guest
How about your "eternal life"s passages? "Age lasting" life too?

There is no end to eternal life

In reference to man and his existence, the Scriptures speak of two, and only two aiones; or ages; one finite, and one infinite; one limited, and one endless; the latter succeeding the former. Shedd - Dogmatic theology
 

Oldsaint24

Well-known member
How about your "eternal life"s passages? "Age lasting" life too?
What passages? I've simply been asking if once one is regenerated to life by the Holy Spirit......does that individual now possess eternal life?

Once we correctly determine that, then we can explore the text most everyone thinks is about "eternal, everlasting" life and what is actually being taught.

Consider this. If the sovereign act of regeneration by the Holy Spirit that instills a new spirit (small 's') IS life eternal..........what's the purpose for all those so called "eternal life" and "everlasting life" verses? That is where I was hoping to go with the Calvinists but they will not answer because then they will have to face a big dilemma with their dogma.

Hey, I preach/write about the gospel of the Kingdom....and the distinction between everlasting life and age lasting life. All God's children HAVE everlasting life. But not all God's children have age lasting life. And the consequence of not having age lasting life is severe.......really nasty........and hot. At least that is what Jesus teaches.
 
T

TomFL

Guest
What passages? I've simply been asking if once one is regenerated to life by the Holy Spirit......does that individual now possess eternal life?

Once we correctly determine that, then we can explore the text most everyone thinks is about "eternal, everlasting" life and what is actually being taught.

Consider this. If the sovereign act of regeneration by the Holy Spirit that instills a new spirit (small 's') IS life eternal..........what's the purpose for all those so called "eternal life" and "everlasting life" verses? That is where I was hoping to go with the Calvinists but they will not answer because then they will have to face a big dilemma with their dogma.

Hey, I preach/write about the gospel of the Kingdom....and the distinction between everlasting life and age lasting life. All God's children HAVE everlasting life. But not all God's children have age lasting life. And the consequence of not having age lasting life is severe.......really nasty........and hot. At least that is what Jesus teaches.
Yes

From CARM

Regeneration
It is the act of God whereby He renews the spiritual condition of a sinner. It is a spiritual change brought about by the work of the Holy Spirit so that the person then possesses new life–eternal life. Regeneration is a change in our moral and spiritual nature where justification is a change in our relationship with God. Also, sanctification is the work of God in us to make us more like Jesus. Regeneration is the beginning of that change. It means to be born again.
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
What passages? I've simply been asking if once one is regenerated to life by the Holy Spirit......does that individual now possess eternal life?

Age lasting life?

Once we correctly determine that, then we can explore the text most everyone thinks is about "eternal, everlasting" life and what is actually being taught.

Consider this. If the sovereign act of regeneration by the Holy Spirit that instills a new spirit (small 's') IS life eternal..........what's the purpose for all those so called "eternal life" and "everlasting life" verses? That is where I was hoping to go with the Calvinists but they will not answer because then they will have to face a big dilemma with their dogma.

Hey, I preach/write about the gospel of the Kingdom....and the distinction between everlasting life and age lasting life. All God's children HAVE everlasting life. But not all God's children have age lasting life. And the consequence of not having age lasting life is severe.......really nasty........and hot. At least that is what Jesus teaches.
 

Oldsaint24

Well-known member
Age lasting life?
Yes, the actual word used is "aionios" which means "age lasting". The word "aion" means age. Aionios is the adjective of aion (age).

Fact: Eternity is NOT an age! Eternity cannot be an age.

An age has a beginning and and ending. That is what makes an age. Eternity has no ending. Do a google search on the word aionios. There are some good ones that explain the bad use/mistranslation of aionios into eternal. Think about it. If you take the word that means "age" and then say it can also mean eternal/perpetual, the word has actually been nullified. It would be like saying "week" means seven days and thus "weekly" means periods of seven days. But then go on to say, "week" can also mean 365 days. You will have destroyed the meaning of the word.

That is what has been done with aionios. And Satan is very clever to have accomplished this mistranslation. It works very well with his plans to keep the children of God from inheriting the "age to come".
 
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TomFL

Guest
What passages? I've simply been asking if once one is regenerated to life by the Holy Spirit......does that individual now possess eternal life?

Once we correctly determine that, then we can explore the text most everyone thinks is about "eternal, everlasting" life and what is actually being taught.

Consider this. If the sovereign act of regeneration by the Holy Spirit that instills a new spirit (small 's') IS life eternal..........what's the purpose for all those so called "eternal life" and "everlasting life" verses? That is where I was hoping to go with the Calvinists but they will not answer because then they will have to face a big dilemma with their dogma.

Hey, I preach/write about the gospel of the Kingdom....and the distinction between everlasting life and age lasting life. All God's children HAVE everlasting life. But not all God's children have age lasting life. And the consequence of not having age lasting life is severe.......really nasty........and hot. At least that is what Jesus teaches.
Well I am not a Calvinist

and know everlasting - eternal aionios life refers to age abiding life
 

Oldsaint24

Well-known member
Well I am not a Calvinist

and know everlasting - eternal aionios life refers to age abiding life
That is a good thing. Now try to figure out that all your supposed "proof" text on the other thead is concerning "age lasting" life and not eternal life.......referring to conversion and not regeneration. When you realize the difference you will eliminate your contradiction. Good luck........not really but you know what I am saying. Search diligently for the truth and love truth more than tradition and dogma.
 
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TomFL

Guest
That is a good thing. Now try to figure out that all your supposed "proof" text on the other thead is concerning "age lasting" life and not eternal life.......referring to conversion and not regeneration. When you realize the difference you will eliminate your contradiction. Good luck........not really but you know what I am saying. Search diligently for the truth and love truth more than tradition and dogma.
I have no contradictions. It just your lack of understanding

My proof texts involve salvation, regeneration, life, eternal (aionios) life

Properly speaking "eternal" life is age abiding life in the endless age to come

Aion just refers to duration the duration of some things are endless and some are not
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
Yes, the actual word used is "aionios" which means "age lasting". The word "aion" means age. Aionios is the adjective of aion (age).

Fact: Eternity is NOT an age! Eternity cannot be an age.

So then where did you get your notion of ETERNAL life?

An age has a beginning and and ending. That is what makes an age. Eternity has no ending. Do a google search on the word aionios. There are some good ones that explain the bad use/mistranslation of aionios into eternal. Think about it. If you take the word that means "age" and then say it can also mean eternal/perpetual, the word has actually been nullified. It would be like saying "week" means seven days and thus "weekly" means periods of seven days. But then go on to say, "week" can also mean 365 days. You will have destroyed the meaning of the word.

That is what has been done with aionios. And Satan is very clever to have accomplished this mistranslation. It works very well with his plans to keep the children of God from inheriting the "age to come".
 

Oldsaint24

Well-known member
So then where did you get your notion of ETERNAL life?
Because all God's children by His Grace HAVE eternal life. Once one is a child of God they will always be a child of God and will live in the forever with God. But....but between now and the forever is the age to come.....the millennial kingdom. Not all of God's children will inherit the age to come. Many wull miss it.....and the consequence of missing it is severe......real nasty punishment......a just punishment.
 
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TomFL

Guest
So then where did you get your notion of ETERNAL life?
Indeed

Oldsaint24 said:
Yes, the actual word used is "aionios" which means "age lasting". The word "aion" means age. Aionios is the adjective of aion (age).

Fact: Eternity is NOT an age! Eternity cannot be an age.

except

Luke 1:33 (KJV)
33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

where forever is to the age
 
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