Even C.T. Russell said Michael is not Christ.

Nathan P

Well-known member
God "alone" is the created the universe (Job 9:8; Isaiah 44:24). The fact that it was done through the Lord Jesus demonstrates He is the Creator (God).
No it says God created through Jesus and it does not say Jesus created anything.
 

Nathan P

Well-known member
Thanks for your admission, because the Bibe teaches God created alone (Job 9:8; Isaiah 44:24).
THat is what I am trying to get you all to understand that God only creates and he uses someone or does it through someone. The one who it is done through does not create and it is done through that one by the creator.
 

rod.ney

Well-known member
No I proved at John 1 that only God created and Jesus created nothing because the him is the creator and the him can not be Jesus because the life in the him was Jesus and thus the him can not be Jesus too. You have to prove the life in the him was not Jesus for you all to be correct?
100% WRONG again because John 1:1 POINT Blank says God with God and Jesus " was God " the Word through/by whom all things were made/created as per John 1:3/Col.1:16! Case closed!
 

rod.ney

Well-known member
John 1 proves nothing about his pre-existence because it is talking about in the beginning there and not before the beginning. His first mention is after the Word became flesh or there was no fleshly Jesus before the the Word became flesh.
Yes I know that God the WORD in John 1:1 did not have His Flesh till John 1:14 happened! Now answer the rest of my question that you AVOIDED! Does John 1:1 say " the Word was God " as MOST Christian Bibles say OR should it REALLY say " the Word was a god ", as your NWT says since JW's think He was actually Michael the Arch Angel who became flesh as Jesus Christ?!
 

Nathan P

Well-known member
Yes I know that God the WORD in John 1:1 did not have His Flesh till John 1:14 happened! Now answer the rest of my question that you AVOIDED! Does John 1:1 say " the Word was God " as MOST Christian Bibles say OR should it REALLY say " the Word was a god ", as your NWT says since JW's think He was actually Michael the Arch Angel who became flesh as Jesus Christ?!
I have read where it is acceptable to say "a God", but I will need to see more who know more about that than me to make a decision.
 

Nathan P

Well-known member
100% WRONG again because John 1:1 POINT Blank says God with God and Jesus " was God " the Word through/by whom all things were made/created as per John 1:3/Col.1:16! Case closed!
No because at col. 1:15-16 the he is a third person pronoun and at https://www.merriam-webster.comthirdpersonpronoun is someone being referred to apart from the speaker or the one being addressed. The one being addressed is the invisible God who is the creator and the he creates nothing.
 

rod.ney

Well-known member
I have read where it is acceptable to say "a God", but I will need to see more who know more about that than me to make a decision.
FYI again the NWT says " a god " and NOT " a God " as you responded here! FYI, god means no Deity and God means Diety! Now answer the Question is the WORD in John 1:1 Deity "God ", ( as True Christians believe or non-Deity " a god ", as JW's believe and have it written that way in their NWT?!
 

rod.ney

Well-known member
No because at col. 1:15-16 the he is a third person pronoun and at https://www.merriam-webster.comthirdpersonpronoun is someone being referred to apart from the speaker or the one being addressed. The one being addressed is the invisible God who is the creator and the he creates nothing.
100% WRONG again as Col.1:16 says " Him " and Not He as you wrongfully posted ! Here's that verse as is in this bible ----------------------------

Colossians 1:16
New International Version

16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.
 

Nathan P

Well-known member
100% WRONG again as Col.1:16 says " Him " and Not He as you wrongfully posted ! Here's that verse as is in this bible ----------------------------

Colossians 1:16​

New International Version​

16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.
Of course it says by him because if it said for by he that would not be proper English. Do you understand they mean the same thing and depending on what is being said sometimes you say he and sometimes you say him? The fact is the invisible God is being addressed there and he is the creator and the he(him) is apart from him because the he is a second person pronoun.
 

rod.ney

Well-known member
Of course it says by him because if it said for by he that would not be proper English. Do you understand they mean the same thing and depending on what is being said sometimes you say he and sometimes you say him? The fact is the invisible God is being addressed there and he is the creator and the he(him) is apart from him because the he is a second person pronoun.
Don't tell us that He or Him in those verses in our Bibles do NOT refer to Jesus Christ! Here's the verse before & after Col.1:16 to get the correct CONTEXT ---------------------

Colossians 1:14-19
New International Version

14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

The Supremacy of the Son of God​

15 The Son ( Jesus Christ, the CONTEXT Nathan P ) is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by him ( the Son ) all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he ( the Son ) is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,
 
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