Even if by some miracle a first creature were to come to be, it is for naught. It will be destroyed and have no offspring.

[SavedByTheLord]

So to recap, the first living creature could not come to be by random chance.
Where would such an amount of amino acids even occur in nature to even make a first creature? They must be in very near proximity to where the first creature came to be.
In water they would immediate diluted and chemical reactions would destroy it. And above ground or in space, it would be destroyed by the the sunlight.
So the first creature is impossible.

The poor creature will not survive long at all. It is not protected from its environment. Chemical reactions will begin to destroy it within seconds. Which is just another problem. It would take too long to assemble itself. Destruction will happen faster than construction.
The poor creature cannot feed itself. It will also not be able to repair itself.
It will not be able to have any offspring. So it could never exist. So even if it did come into existence, it would die quickly and could not have offspring.

 

[Tetsugaku]

Great. Now we have three threads where you will be arguing the exact same topic.

 

[SavedByTheLord]

Great. Now we have three threads where you will be arguing the exact same topic.

This is a follow up to the first creature thread.

 

[Temujin]

When being thrashed in an argument, restart the argument on a new thread and pretend that all the others didn't happen. When that doesn't work, jump from the Evolution board to the Atheism board and try again. How long will it be before you start posting in Secular Media, or Astronomy?

 

[SavedByTheLord]

When being thrashed in an argument, restart the argument on a new thread and pretend that all the others didn't happen. When that doesn't work, jump from the Evolution board to the Atheism board and try again. How long will it be before you start posting in Secular Media, or Astronomy?

And your rebuttal to the proof is ....

 

[Tetsugaku]

This is a follow up to the first creature thread.

It's spam. Everything in your OP has already been addressed where you first posted it.

 

[SavedByTheLord]

It's spam. Everything in your OP has already been addressed where you first posted it.

Not so

 

[Temujin]

And your rebuttal to the proof is ....

Found on all the other threads that you have run away from.

 

[Temujin]

Great. Now we have three threads where you will be arguing the exact same topic.

Actually there are at least six others, all the same, in Evolution and Intelligent Design. This guy is almost a caricature of the YEC play book.

 

[SavedByTheLord]

Actually there are at least six others, all the same, in Evolution and Intelligent Design. This guy is almost a caricature of the YEC play book.

Not true,

 

[Tetsugaku]

Actually there are at least six others, all the same, in Evolution and Intelligent Design. This guy is almost a caricature of the YEC play book.

I know. I've been following the EV&ID threads. He's also arguing with Christians in other sub-forums. It's almost enough to make one nostalgic for the old days of CARM where this would be a regular thing.

 

[SavedByTheLord]

I know. I've been following the EV&ID threads. He's also arguing with Christians in other sub-forums. It's almost enough to make one nostalgic for the old days of CARM where this would be a regular thing.

Who is arguing? I am having friendly discussions.

 

[Temujin]

I know. I've been following the EV&ID threads. He's also arguing with Christians in other sub-forums. It's almost enough to make one nostalgic for the old days of CARM where this would be a regular thing.

Yeah, nostalgia isn't what it used to be.

 

[CrowCross]

Where would such an amount of amino acids even occur in nature to even make a first creature?

I would imagine it's even more complicated that that.

Atoms-----> molecules-----> amino acids-----> proteins-----> organelle

DNA, that is the code with the instructions...causes atoms to form molecules within a living body.
The DNA continues to code for the molecules to group and form amino acids.
The amino acids join together and form proteins according to the direction of the genetic DNA code.
The proteins are instructed by DNA how to precisely fold, group together with other folded proteins and create organelle.

It's not a simple process as the evos would like you to link it is.....that is claiming it's so simple it could have arrived by chance.

Then again you're talking about the "first creature".....what came first the chicken oops, the amino acids or DNA instructions.

Wait, wait, wait....it's even more complicated that that....what came first the organelle or the DNA.....or the organelle with the ability to read the DNA and follow the instructions or was it the DNA containing the information to build the organelle to read the instructions???

But, don't worry...the evos here have the answer...right ??

 

[rossum]

Then again you're talking about the "first creature".....what came first the chicken oops, the amino acids or DNA instructions.

RNA came first. That is why tRNA, mRNA and the ribosome (note that "ribo" in there) which mediate between DNA and a protein, all use RNA molecules.

RNA can store information, as DNA can, but it is not as good at information storage as DNA. Ribozymes (RNA enzymes) can act as catalysts, but they are not as good as protein enzymes.

RNA can perform both storage and catalysing functions, so it is a simple way to do both. However, there are better ways, so evolution moved to the improved DNA information storage and the improved protein enzymes, as being beneficial. That left RNA in the middle, between the information storage and the protein molecule. Both ends were replaced, leaving only the middle for RNA to fit in.

 

[SavedByTheLord]

Impossible for a first living creature to

RNA came first. That is why tRNA, mRNA and the ribosome (note that "ribo" in there) which mediate between DNA and a protein, all use RNA molecules.

RNA can store information, as DNA can, but it is not as good at information storage as DNA. Ribozymes (RNA enzymes) can act as catalysts, but they are not as good as protein enzymes.

RNA can perform both storage and catalysing functions, so it is a simple way to do both. However, there are better ways, so evolution moved to the improved DNA information storage and the improved protein enzymes, as being beneficial. That left RNA in the middle, between the information storage and the protein molecule. Both ends were replaced, leaving only the middle for RNA to fit in.

Now you have 3 major impossibilities. DNA will never evolve. The poor creature will die right away, so no offspring. And such a first living creature cannot come into being with random chance.

 

[rossum]

Now you have 3 major impossibilities. DNA will never evolve. The poor creature will die right away, so no offspring.

Go and learn how the Natural Selection part of evolution works. If the offspring dies right away, then those mutations are removed from the gene pool right away. Only with a beneficial mutation will the offspring not die and have further offspring, spreading the beneficial mutation through the population.

Here is a mnemonic for Natural Selection: If your parents didn't have any children, then the chances are that you won't have any either.

 

[SavedByTheLord]

Go and learn how the Natural Selection part of evolution works. If the offspring dies right away, then those mutations are removed from the gene pool right away. Only with a beneficial mutation will the offspring not die and have further offspring, spreading the beneficial mutation through the population.

Here is a mnemonic for Natural Selection: If your parents didn't have any children, then the chances are that you won't have any either.

But if no first living thing ever comes into existence, as I have proved, how would natural selection work on no living things?

 

[Temujin]

But if no first living thing ever comes into existence, as I have proved, how would natural selection work on no living things?

You have proved no such thing. How do you account for the discovery of chemicals associated with life being found on a planet 110 light years away?

 

[rossum]

But if no first living thing ever comes into existence, as I have proved, how would natural selection work on no living things?

But you started with one living thing, that you said had no viable offspring. It is perfectly possible that life started many time and ended many times, but we have evidence that it started more times than it ended. Given conditions in the Hadean, under the Late Heavy Bombardment then it is likely that life started more then once.