Evil

[Grayecxm]

Hey everyone, I’m new here. I was looking in the forums last night trying to find this topic addressed and discussed with rationality and respect. Please forgive me if I missed it…
My husband and I are divided on Calvinism vs non Calvinism and the question of the origin of evil has come up.

please don’t comment with a thousand Bible verses, I am not interested in cut and paste answers, I really want someone’s biblical perspective and thoughts as to a perfect God who decrees all things but yet evils very existence. It seems to be a logical incoherency that a perfect God created evil. My husband gives the pat answer that it comes from our hearts but if God decrees all things, down to the smallest degree, how can it be? Did he decree evil?

if you believe that evil comes from our own hearts desire, does that not mean that God created something less than good?

for my understanding, Gods “sovereignty” isn’t challenged or impugned by gifting us the free will to serve him or not.

And if you say that we were given the capacity for evil but not for the choice to have faith, what would the point be?
I hope you can follow my thoughts and would love to hear different perspectives

Thank you, I look forward to reading both sides if anyone feels so inclined!

 

[Grayecxm]

These thoughts are complicated and can be hard to sort out.

It seems to me the heart of your question is, "What virtue is there in God allowing the possibility of evil, and does the very existence of evil necessitate that it is God's desire?"

I apologize if I'm way off base there.

Some people defend the existence of free will with the virtue of the ability to really love, that is, God forcing us to love him seems somehow lesser in value than if he allows our love to be genuine. And of course freedom necessitates the possibility of rejection. I think there is some merit in that, but it is not the whole story.

The existence of free will glorifies God in that it allows an expression of value for God that is greater than something forced to value God; that is, allowing a creation to of its own accord value God is more glorifying to God than a creation that is forced to value God; and the reason would be, this freely made choice, expresses and reflects a virtue in the character of God that he deserves to be freely chosen, and that he himself freely chooses the good.

Where the problem of evil becomes offensive and confusing is, that when the creation freely rejects, disobeys and rebels against God, God to show forth his own value and dignity, must correspondingly bring a form or kind of devaluation to the creation, which we term as judgment. Judgment does not mean God loves the creation less, but that God loves his holiness more than the creation's well being, and it is fitting for God to do so.

I hope these thoughts are interesting and enlightening, I haven't heard many, if any, people bring out these truths quite like this, and it has explained and focused a lot of things for me. I no longer struggle with the existence of evil or the problem of evil being harmonized with an infinitely just, holy and good love, in this light, and realize my problem was pride, independence and an insistence I have to prove God right before I take him on faith: self-idolatry.

God bless and peace in Christ.

Thank you for such a thoughtful response- I’m going to think on it…

do you think God hates evil?

To clarify my own understanding, I absolutely believe evil exists. I also believe it will be judged. I don’t struggle with that idea- just the explanation from a Calvinistic perspective seems lacking IMO.

 

[Grayecxm]

Also, my question is not about God allowing the possibility of evil- i believe that is true. My question is from the opposing side which would say that God decrees all things but evil. That seems contrary?

 

[guest1]

Also, my question is not about God allowing the possibility of evil- i believe that is true. My question is from the opposing side which would say that God decrees all things but evil. That seems contrary?

God being all knowing has clearly prior to creation planned redemption from sin as Jesus was the Lamb who was slain before the foundation of the world. Creation was designed with the consequences of sin already in place with a predetermined plan of escape for Gods elect. We were chosen in Him before the foundation of the world. That is my readers digest version.

Did God create evil ? no
Did God design creation knowing evil would be a result of the fall of satan, his angels and man ? yes

Both satan and adam had a true free will to choose obedience or rebellion with God. The only other person born with a true free will was Jesus as a man on this earth. All others are in bondage/slaves of sin.

This is my biblical view but not everyone will agree and that is ok. These are not salvific doctrines to believe but it does reveal ones perspective about God.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Grayecxm]

God being all knowing has clearly prior to creation planned redemption from sin as Jesus was the Lamb who was slain before the foundation of the world. Creation was designed with the consequences of sin already in place with a predetermined plan of escape for Gods elect. We were chosen in Him before the foundation of the world. That is my readers digest version.

Did God create evil ? no
Did God design creation knowing evil would be a result of the fall of satan, his angels and man ? yes

Both satan and adam had a true free will to choose obedience or rebellion with God. The only other person born with a true free will was Jesus as a man on this earth. All others are in bondage/slaves of sin.

This is my biblical view but not everyone will agree and that is ok. These are not salvific doctrines to believe but it does reveal ones perspective about God.

hope this helps !!!

Thank you civic-

i guess I’m asking a bit deeper but I’m not the best at laying out the question, partly because I’m still working out the question in my own heart 😂

i respect your view but it doesn’t really answer the heart of the question

I’m going to be really simplistic here-for arguments sake:
if God chose people (elect) based on nothing about those people and also not based on any choices those people would make, why did he allow evil? According to Calvinism, he doesn’t allow us to choose him- he elects us to choose him and if that’s the case, what purpose would evil have at all? How did it come into existence with a perfect God who decrees everything?

Thank you for bearing with me, my husband and I have had a rough time talking this out so I felt it would be better to hash out some of these thoughts in a neutral place.

 

[Stephen]

please don’t comment with a thousand Bible verses, I am not interested in cut and paste answers, I really want someone’s biblical perspective and thoughts as to a perfect God who decrees all things but yet evils very existence. It seems to be a logical incoherency that a perfect God created evil. My husband gives the pat answer that it comes from our hearts but if God decrees all things, down to the smallest degree, how can it be? Did he decree evil?

The same questions I had. I've since moved on to open theism. The God of the bible is pictured as setting policy and empowering servants to move his plan forward. He's not exhaustively dictating the actions of every molecule.

if you believe that evil comes from our own hearts desire, does that not mean that God created something less than good?

A creation is neither morally good nor morally evil unless it has moral agency and chooses one or the other.

Adam an Eve ate fruit from the tree of the knowledge of both Good and Evil, not just the knowledge of evil. As such we, as their children, have the knowledge of both good and evil and have choices to make.

for my understanding, Gods “sovereignty” isn’t challenged or impugned by gifting us the free will to serve him or not.

Amen. If God wants us to have free will, how is his sovereignty challenged by us having what he wants us to have?

And if you say that we were given the capacity for evil but not for the choice to have faith, what would the point be?

Amen. If you don't have moral agency, then you are no different than the animals.

 

[guest1]

Thank you civic-

i guess I’m asking a bit deeper but I’m not the best at laying out the question, partly because I’m still working out the question in my own heart 😂

i respect your view but it doesn’t really answer the heart of the question

I’m going to be really simplistic here-for arguments sake:
if God chose people (elect) based on nothing about those people and also not based on any choices those people would make, why did he allow evil? According to Calvinism, he doesn’t allow us to choose him- he elects us to choose him and if that’s the case, what purpose would evil have at all? How did it come into existence with a perfect God who decrees everything?

Thank you for bearing with me, my husband and I have had a rough time talking this out so I felt it would be better to hash out some of these thoughts in a neutral place.

I thought that was addressed with the free will of satan. God did not create robots with angels or man but allowed them to freely love and obey Him and if they did not the consequences of sin would result in all the evil this world has witnessed. The good news is that in the new heavens and earth that will never again happen as sin, evil will be done away with permanently.

BTW- our wills are only " set free" after we are born again from God via regeneration which is an act of God, not man. Just as we had no choice in our physical birth we had no choice in our spiritual birth. Once we are born again Christ sets us free from being a slave of sin. Then and only then do we have the choice to obey God or not.

hope this helps !!!

 

[ReverendRV]

Hey everyone, I’m new here. I was looking in the forums last night trying to find this topic addressed and discussed with rationality and respect. Please forgive me if I missed it…
My husband and I are divided on Calvinism vs non Calvinism and the question of the origin of evil has come up.

please don’t comment with a thousand Bible verses, I am not interested in cut and paste answers, I really want someone’s biblical perspective and thoughts as to a perfect God who decrees all things but yet evils very existence. It seems to be a logical incoherency that a perfect God created evil. My husband gives the pat answer that it comes from our hearts but if God decrees all things, down to the smallest degree, how can it be? Did he decree evil?

if you believe that evil comes from our own hearts desire, does that not mean that God created something less than good?

for my understanding, Gods “sovereignty” isn’t challenged or impugned by gifting us the free will to serve him or not.

And if you say that we were given the capacity for evil but not for the choice to have faith, what would the point be?
I hope you can follow my thoughts and would love to hear different perspectives

Thank you, I look forward to reading both sides if anyone feels so inclined!

Welcome to CARM!

I'm a Calvinist. I recommend you find a Poster you like, then walk with them a couple of miles. Of course, everyone here could have good points. I'll Post a couple of things; first, my Gospel Tract on the Problem of Evil. Then, what I think is THE answer...

 

[ReverendRV]

The Problem of Evil ~ by Reverend RV​

John 9:1-2 NIV; As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. His disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”

How can you adequately address the Problem of Evil in a one page Gospel Tract?? When I first became a Christian I foolishly thought it would be an easy thing. The Bible says that God tries us in the Crucible like molten Gold; skimming the Dross off the top. This intellectual answer falls short of being compassionate though, and it can never help those who have suffered from the evil acts of men. Though my answer is partly correct, we have to resist the Pride of head knowledge; God can show ‘us’ how it falls short. Later in my life I suffered from the evil actions of men and though I had head knowledge, I still cried out to God, “Why??” ~ The Problem of Evil is the main reason Atheists rule out the existence of God; if there were a God, why doesn’t he do anything about Evil? “Okay, okay, that’s fair. Where should God begin?”

What if God started with you? ~ Have you ever told a Lie? Sure you have; what do you call people that Lie? You object, “Wait right there, Lying isn’t Evil!” Let me ask you this, is Satan Evil? “Yes…” The Devil is called “the Father of Lies”. Have you ever committed Adultery? Jesus said that if you have Lusted after someone, you’ve committed Adultery in your Heart. People who have cheated on their Spouse usually have the consent of the other woman when they have an affair; but Lust never has the other persons consent! Have you ever Hated somebody? If you’ve suffered because of Evil, I bet you have. Jesus said that Hatred is Murder in our Hearts. Satan is a murderer from the beginning; just by telling Lies. If you’ve ever said that someone belongs in Hell, you recognize God’s authority to Judge even you. ~ These were only three of the Ten Commandments, if God judged you by his Laws, would you be innocent or guilty? Would you go to Heaven or Hell? ~ You don’t have to go to Hell; God HAS done something about Evil…

For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have Everlasting Life! Jesus Christ is this Son of God, born of a Virgin in order to not be tainted by the Sin of Adam. He lived a Sinless life and was killed by the hands and hearts of Sinful Men, for the Sins of all believers. He was Crucified and shed his blood as punishment for Sins we deserved to pay for. After three days in the grave, he arose from the dead and ascended to the right hand of God in Heaven. We’re Saved by God’s Grace through Faith in the Resurrected Savior Jesus Christ, without Works lest we should boast. Repent of your Sins, Confess Jesus Christ as your Lord God and start going to a Church that teaches the Bible. ~ God uses Evil; although we meant Sin for Evil, God means it for Good; for the Saving of many lives. When asked why the man was born blind, Jesus said it wasn’t because of ‘Sin/Evil’ but for that very moment; so the Works of God would be displayed by healing his eyes. ~ If you were comforted because I said that even I had to ask God “Why??”, Jesus himself asked why; even though he had all the head knowledge a person can have about it. Jesus understands your experience like no one else can…

Psalm 22:1a ESV; My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?

 

[Grayecxm]

I thought that was addressed with the free will of satan. God did not create robots with angels or man but allowed them to freely love and obey Him and if they did not the consequences of sin would result in all the evil this world has witnessed. The good news is that in the new heavens and earth that will never again happen as sin, evil will be done away with permanently.

BTW- our wills are only " set free" after we are born again from God via regeneration which is an act of God, not man. Just as we had no choice in our physical birth we had no choice in our spiritual birth. Once we are born again Christ sets us free from being a slave of sin. Then and only then do we have the choice to obey God or not.

hope this helps !!!

so do you believe that only satan and Jesus had free will? Can you expand on that?

With all do respect, it’s hard for me to follow your argument. Correct me please but you seem to be saying that we DO have free will (not robots) while also saying that we are only “set free” to serve him if he grants us that saving faith (Hence the robot argument)?

I’m also confused about the idea that after God grants us the “regenerative saving grace” that only then do we have a choice? And wouldn’t that be him making the choice for us?

 

[SDAchristian]

Hey everyone, I’m new here. I was looking in the forums last night trying to find this topic addressed and discussed with rationality and respect. Please forgive me if I missed it…
My husband and I are divided on Calvinism vs non Calvinism and the question of the origin of evil has come up.
please don’t comment with a thousand Bible verses, I am not interested in cut and paste answers, I really want someone’s biblical perspective and thoughts as to a perfect God who decrees all things but yet evils very existence. It seems to be a logical incoherency that a perfect God created evil. My husband gives the pat answer that it comes from our hearts but if God decrees all things, down to the smallest degree, how can it be? Did he decree evil?
if you believe that evil comes from our own hearts desire, does that not mean that God created something less than good?
for my understanding, Gods “sovereignty” isn’t challenged or impugned by gifting us the free will to serve him or not.
And if you say that we were given the capacity for evil but not for the choice to have faith, what would the point be?
I hope you can follow my thoughts and would love to hear different perspectives
Thank you, I look forward to reading both sides if anyone feels so inclined!

GOD had a free will choice to permit evil to exist on a temporary basis. This is also know as permissive will.

In the battle with evil, a contest occurred over whether GOD truly permitted free will in created beings.

We got caught in the battle between good and evil. In our free will choice given by GOD, we can choose who we will serve, with forever benefits.

AV Re 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

That choice is offered in "the everlasting gospel".

Yours in Christ, Michael

 

[Grayecxm]

The Problem of Evil ~ by Reverend RV​

John 9:1-2 NIV; As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. His disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”

How can you adequately address the Problem of Evil in a one page Gospel Tract?? When I first became a Christian I foolishly thought it would be an easy thing. The Bible says that God tries us in the Crucible like molten Gold; skimming the Dross off the top. This intellectual answer falls short of being compassionate though, and it can never help those who have suffered from the evil acts of men. Though my answer is partly correct, we have to resist the Pride of head knowledge; God can show ‘us’ how it falls short. Later in my life I suffered from the evil actions of men and though I had head knowledge, I still cried out to God, “Why??” ~ The Problem of Evil is the main reason Atheists rule out the existence of God; if there were a God, why doesn’t he do anything about Evil? “Okay, okay, that’s fair. Where should God begin?”

What if God started with you? ~ Have you ever told a Lie? Sure you have; what do you call people that Lie? You object, “Wait right there, Lying isn’t Evil!” Let me ask you this, is Satan Evil? “Yes…” The Devil is called “the Father of Lies”. Have you ever committed Adultery? Jesus said that if you have Lusted after someone, you’ve committed Adultery in your Heart. People who have cheated on their Spouse usually have the consent of the other woman when they have an affair; but Lust never has the other persons consent! Have you ever Hated somebody? If you’ve suffered because of Evil, I bet you have. Jesus said that Hatred is Murder in our Hearts. Satan is a murderer from the beginning; just by telling Lies. If you’ve ever said that someone belongs in Hell, you recognize God’s authority to Judge even you. ~ These were only three of the Ten Commandments, if God judged you by his Laws, would you be innocent or guilty? Would you go to Heaven or Hell? ~ You don’t have to go to Hell; God HAS done something about Evil…

For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have Everlasting Life! Jesus Christ is this Son of God, born of a Virgin in order to not be tainted by the Sin of Adam. He lived a Sinless life and was killed by the hands and hearts of Sinful Men, for the Sins of all believers. He was Crucified and shed his blood as punishment for Sins we deserved to pay for. After three days in the grave, he arose from the dead and ascended to the right hand of God in Heaven. We’re Saved by God’s Grace through Faith in the Resurrected Savior Jesus Christ, without Works lest we should boast. Repent of your Sins, Confess Jesus Christ as your Lord God and start going to a Church that teaches the Bible. ~ God uses Evil; although we meant Sin for Evil, God means it for Good; for the Saving of many lives. When asked why the man was born blind, Jesus said it wasn’t because of ‘Sin/Evil’ but for that very moment; so the Works of God would be displayed by healing his eyes. ~ If you were comforted because I said that even I had to ask God “Why??”, Jesus himself asked why; even though he had all the head knowledge a person can have about it. Jesus understands your experience like no one else can…

Psalm 22:1a ESV; My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?

Thank you for that!
I want to make clear that I don’t have a hard time reconciling the existence of evil with a good God.

the non Calvinist has a logical answer for this- In my understanding, God in his perfect sovereign omnipotence created us with a free will that exists in a sphere of boundaries that he in his perfect nature put in place. It doesn’t diminish his sovereignty to allow us a time and sphere to exist and decide to serve him with our own volition.
evil is a result of that free will gift and something he counted before he began.

the existence and reason for evil is pretty uncomplicated to the non Calvinist. It follows the character of God and doesn’t contradict the Bible.

The part I’m struggling with is the Calvinist explanation of the very existence of evil when God decrees everything-
It logically follows that God would have to “decree sin” can you expand on your thoughts on that idea?

the article you posted seems to be dealing with sin and the just punishment of God but that isn’t my question. I agree that God is just and we all deserve death.

 

[ReverendRV]

@Grayecxm Isaiah 45:7 KJV; I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Some Versions of the Bible interpret the word 'evil' here are 'calamity'; but should they? The word which is translated is the Hebrew word 'Ra', this word is found elsewhere in the Bible. "You must not eat the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and [Ra - calamity? Nah, Evil] for the day you eat of it you will die". No, the word in Isaiah also means Evil; people just want to water it down...

Now this is how God creates Evil; the clue is in the first part of the Verse. God forms the Light and creates Darkness; HOW?? This is how; God created the World, IE God 'C'reated the 'Material' World. When Light shines on Matter, a Dark Shadow is created (notice I am using Capital C's and Lower Case c's). God surreptitiously 'c'reates the Dark just by being LIGHT. ~ Now for the second half of the Verse. "I make Peace, and create Evil"; God also does this 'Surreptitiously', just by being "Good". Evil is a Consequence of our coming to the Knowledge of God's Goodness and our Evil; this is how God is not Culpable for creating Evil...

Now this is an Addendum. The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil represents the Law of God, for by it we 'know' Sin...

Romans 7:7 NIV; What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.”

 

[guest1]

Thank you for that!
I want to make clear that I don’t have a hard time reconciling the existence of evil with a good God.

the non Calvinist has a logical answer for this- In my understanding, God in his perfect sovereign omnipotence created us with a free will that exists in a sphere of boundaries that he in his perfect nature put in place. It doesn’t diminish his sovereignty to allow us a time and sphere to exist and decide to serve him with our own volition.
evil is a result of that free will gift and something he counted before he began.

the existence and reason for evil is pretty uncomplicated to the non Calvinist. It follows the character of God and doesn’t contradict the Bible.

The part I’m struggling with is the Calvinist explanation of the very existence of evil when God decrees everything-
It logically follows that God would have to “decree sin” can you expand on your thoughts on that idea?

the article you posted seems to be dealing with sin and the just punishment of God but that isn’t my question. I agree that God is just and we all deserve death.

Evil did not exist prior to the fall it’s a result of SIN.

 

[ReverendRV]

The part I’m struggling with is the Calvinist explanation of the very existence of evil when God decrees everything-
It logically follows that God would have to “decree sin” can you expand on your thoughts on that idea?

the article you posted seems to be dealing with sin and the just punishment of God but that isn’t my question. I agree that God is just and we all deserve death.

I think I dealt with that in my second Post to you, we can talk about that one for a while. The Article is one of my Gospel Tracts I've written, thanks for enjoying it...

 

[SDAchristian]

Prologue:
AV Isa 14:12-15 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! [how] art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. 15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

Evil did not exist prior to the fall it’s a result of SIN.

"the fall", Is what event in your understanding in context of these words ???

Yours in Christ, Michael

 

[guest1]

Prologue:
AV Isa 14:12-15 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! [how] art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. 15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

"the fall", Is what event in your understanding in context of these words ???

Yours in Christ, Michael

The fall of Lucifer , satan the devil whoever /whatever you want to call the angel.

 

[ReverendRV]

Prologue:
AV Isa 14:12-15 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! [how] art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. 15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

"the fall", Is what event in your understanding in context of these words ???

Yours in Christ, Michael

No, he doesn't understand it that way. Jesus said he was there the day Satan crashed into the Earth; the Fall of Satan occurred after Creation...

 

[SDAchristian]

Prologue:
AV Jn 4:22-24 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24 God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.

@Grayecxm Isaiah 45:7 KJV; I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Some Versions of the Bible interpret the word 'evil' here are 'calamity'; but should they? The word which is translated is the Hebrew word 'Ra', the word is found elsewhere in the Bible. "You must not eat the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and [Ra - calamity? Nah, Evil] for the day you eat of it you will die". No, the word in Isaiah also means Evil; people just want to water it down...
Now this is how God creates Evil; the clue is in the first part of the Verse. God forms the Light and creates Darkness; HOW?? This is how; God created the World, IE God 'C'reated the 'Material' World. When Light shines on Matter, a Dark Shadow is created (notice I am using Capital C's and Lower Case c's). God surreptitiously 'c'reates the Dark just by being LIGHT. ~ Now for the second half of the Verse. "I make Peace, and create Evil"; God also does this 'Surreptitiously', just by being "Good". Evil is a Consequence of our coming to the Knowledge of Evil; this is how God is not Culpable for creating Evil...
Now this is an Addendum. The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil represents the Law of God, for by it we 'know' Sin...
Romans 7:7 NIV; What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.”

AV Re 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither [whatsoever] worketh abomination, or [maketh] a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

GOD is absolute Love in Spirit, the opposite of GOD's Love is evil.

We all have free will choice to oppose GOD's Love, Right ??? With many choices of instruments not of Love, Spirit and Truth.

Cliché Alert: “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”, GOD is working on the problem of evil, in GOD's Own Will and Way.

Yours in Christ, Michael

 

[ReverendRV]

Prologue:
AV Jn 4:22-24 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24 God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.

AV Re 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither [whatsoever] worketh abomination, or [maketh] a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

GOD is absolute Love in Spirit, the opposite of GOD's Love is evil.

We all have free will choice to oppose GOD's Love, Right ??? With many choices of instruments not of Love, Spirit and Truth.

Cliché Alert: “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”, GOD is working on the problem of evil, in GOD's Own Will and Way.

Yours in Christ, Michael

@Grayecxm @Graysonau This is what I mean when I said pick someone and go an extra mile with them. I pick you to go a mile with, not SDAchristian...

Notice that people will want to change the topic of your thread...