Evil

Sethproton

Well-known member
Ask @Grayecxm if she will address it...
I knew she said she was going to be away from this thread for a while, so I was willing to engage Civic while she is away, but sure if she is interested, she could comment on whether she and her church think that Jesus was omnipresent while He walked the earth and if she agrees that the resurrected body Christ walked in was flesh and bone without any blood.
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
I knew she said she was going to be away from this thread for a while, so I was willing to engage Civic while she is away, but sure if she is interested, she could comment on whether she and her church think that Jesus was omnipresent while He walked the earth and if she agrees that the resurrected body Christ walked in was flesh and bone without any blood.
Cut to the chase and ask @Grayecxm if Jesus Christ is God...
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
Cut to the chase and ask @Grayecxm if Jesus Christ is God...
Of course Jesus is and always was God. That is a foundational truth of Christianity. If she denies that, i would not consider her a Christian.
And this shows your ignorance/blindness that you think i would deny that.
I am telling you, stop getting your news from Civic. He viciously twists everything and you drink that kool aid.
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Of course Jesus is and always was God. That is a foundational truth of Christianity. If she denies that, i would not consider her a Christian.
And this shows your ignorance/blindness that you think i would deny that.
I am telling you, stop getting your news from Civic. He viciously twists everything and you drink that kool aid.
I get my news from you, who say Jesus is bodiless. So ask her if Jesus has an Anthropos body...
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
I get my news from you, who say Jesus is bodiless. So ask her if Jesus has an Anthropos body...
you got that from Civic, i have never claimed Christ was bodiless.
It baffles me why you prefer to take what Civic says about me, instead of what i actually say
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
you got that from Civic, i have never claimed Christ was bodiless.
It baffles me why you prefer to take what Civic says about me, instead of what i actually say
Yes you have. I know Theo says to post a quote but the old Forums are long gone; though knowing @civic he has it archived. There were probably 10,000+ Posts there in the 'Does Jesus have a Body?' styled Threads. Those of us here as long as you, know that you HAVE said these things...
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
Yes you have. I know Theo says to post a quote but the old Forums are long gone; though knowing @civic he has it archived. There were probably 10,000+ Posts there in the 'Does Jesus have a Body?' styled Threads. Those of us here as long as you, know that you HAVE said these things...
What you are remembering is Civic's version. And no matter how many times I tell you what i really believe, you prefer his version.
That baffles me
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
What you are remembering is Civic's version. And no matter how many times I tell you what i really believe, you prefer his version.
That baffles me
No, what I remember is your version. You said that Jesus is not currently an Anthropos Man, even though the Bible says he is...
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
No, what I remember is your version. You said that Jesus is not currently an Anthropos Man, even though the Bible says he is...
Well I now know what my next Gospel Tract will be about, the Anthropos Lord God Jesus Christ. I have 362 of them, and just need a few more to have enough for my book; a Daily Devotional with enough one-page Gospel Tracts for an entire year...

@Grayecxm , do you have any ideas/questions that I can turn into a Gospel Tract?
 
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civic

Well-known member
What you are remembering is Civic's version. And no matter how many times I tell you what i really believe, you prefer his version.
That baffles me
My version is your own words which condemn you and support me seth which is why I have saved many of your posts in times like this when you deny saying them.
 

civic

Well-known member
Of course Jesus is and always was God. That is a foundational truth of Christianity. If she denies that, i would not consider her a Christian.
And this shows your ignorance/blindness that you think i would deny that.
I am telling you, stop getting your news from Civic. He viciously twists everything and you drink that kool aid.
Then you are not a Christian by your own standards since you deny Jesus was fully God on this earth with your Kenosis heresy.
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
Then you are not a Christian by your own standards since you deny Jesus was fully God on this earth with your Kenosis heresy.
Jesus is God. Where do you get the idea of fully God? He is either God or not. no partial, no fully, just God.
 

civic

Well-known member
Jesus is God. Where do you get the idea of fully God? He is either God or not. no partial, no fully, just God.
Is the Father Omni All ? Yes or no
Was the Son Omni All on this earth ? Yes or no

Try squirming your way out of this predicament seth.

These 2 questions expose your false christ .

hope this helos
 

Tercon

Well-known member
Hey everyone, I’m new here. I was looking in the forums last night trying to find this topic addressed and discussed with rationality and respect. Please forgive me if I missed it…
My husband and I are divided on Calvinism vs non Calvinism and the question of the origin of evil has come up.

please don’t comment with a thousand Bible verses, I am not interested in cut and paste answers, I really want someone’s biblical perspective and thoughts as to a perfect God who decrees all things but yet evils very existence. It seems to be a logical incoherency that a perfect God created evil. My husband gives the pat answer that it comes from our hearts but if God decrees all things, down to the smallest degree, how can it be? Did he decree evil?

if you believe that evil comes from our own hearts desire, does that not mean that God created something less than good?

for my understanding, Gods “sovereignty” isn’t challenged or impugned by gifting us the free will to serve him or not.

And if you say that we were given the capacity for evil but not for the choice to have faith, what would the point be?
I hope you can follow my thoughts and would love to hear different perspectives

Thank you, I look forward to reading both sides if anyone feels so inclined!

If God is all good and all that exists came from God, then evil did not come from God, nor does evil exist in anything He creates. If there is evil in people, then it is there because of themselves and not God. But God does give us a way out of sin with His truth and Kingdom. And if the people that He makes in His own image can't be unbelievers, then all the people He makes in His own image must be believers.
Evil or sin is like unbelief, and unbelief is just the lack of belief and the lack of something that exists doesn't itself exist. Rather it is just the lack of something that does exist in reality. And if belief exists in reality and is the only thing capable of making the truth and reality of God known to us, then belief must have originated in and with God.

So, unbelievers must be those who falsely believe unbelief and evil exists in God's reality.
 
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Tercon

Well-known member
Evil did not exist prior to the fall it’s a result of SIN.

Sin exists the same way unbelief exists; unbelief is just the lack of belief and sin of just a lack of truth. But neither has a object of belief that can make them known to exist in reality, rather their existence is just the figment of someone's deluded mind.
 

civic

Well-known member
you got that from Civic, i have never claimed Christ was bodiless.
It baffles me why you prefer to take what Civic says about me, instead of what i actually say
Here are your OWN WORDS which back up my claim from the old forum.

this may be one place where you and I differ. The more i study these related passages, the more I see that Christ was only a man until He died and His blood mediated the New Covenant. My current understanding was that as soon as He was shed of the human body, he was no longer human. Of course this is too deep for any of us to fully understand, and i can't claim to have it figured out, but what i see leads me this way.

It would be strange if I ended up having some overlap with JW's. And I don't know exactly what they think or how they describe what they think. I doubt I would get a sober, sensible description from the folks on this forum, they are so hot to destroy every heretic they never even try to understand what is being said. reminds me of the Black listing by the FBI. Substance and truth was never the issue, and here we can just be grateful they aren't allowed to burn us at the stake.

http://forums.carm.org/vbb/showthre...Jesus-part-3&p=4198505&viewfull=1#post4198505


“it is a spiritual body and not a physical body of flesh and bone.”

“Since the Bible teaches that all things physical will be annihilated, or rolled up like a garment and discarded, that would be the logical conclusion concerning the physical body Christ had before the resurrection.”

What do you find sad about saying that God for a while took on flesh, a body prepared for a limited time and as one of us lived perfect and died securing for us a new covenant with the Father and then taking back up what He had laid down, returning to His former glory with the Father. What is sad about that?

http://forums.carm.org/vbb/showthread.php?141903-The-Bodily-Resurrection-of-Jesus-part-3/page49


conclusion: These ideas above are straight out of the JW teachings. They teach verbatim His body was annihilated or rolled up like a garment and discarded. They made up that phrase. The JWs invented is seth. So quit playing dumb.

hope this helps !!!
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
Here are your OWN WORDS which back up my claim from the old forum.

this may be one place where you and I differ. The more i study these related passages, the more I see that Christ was only a man until He died and His blood mediated the New Covenant. My current understanding was that as soon as He was shed of the human body, he was no longer human. Of course this is too deep for any of us to fully understand, and i can't claim to have it figured out, but what i see leads me this way.

It would be strange if I ended up having some overlap with JW's. And I don't know exactly what they think or how they describe what they think. I doubt I would get a sober, sensible description from the folks on this forum, they are so hot to destroy every heretic they never even try to understand what is being said. reminds me of the Black listing by the FBI. Substance and truth was never the issue, and here we can just be grateful they aren't allowed to burn us at the stake.

http://forums.carm.org/vbb/showthre...Jesus-part-3&p=4198505&viewfull=1#post4198505


“it is a spiritual body and not a physical body of flesh and bone.”

“Since the Bible teaches that all things physical will be annihilated, or rolled up like a garment and discarded, that would be the logical conclusion concerning the physical body Christ had before the resurrection.”

What do you find sad about saying that God for a while took on flesh, a body prepared for a limited time and as one of us lived perfect and died securing for us a new covenant with the Father and then taking back up what He had laid down, returning to His former glory with the Father. What is sad about that?

http://forums.carm.org/vbb/showthread.php?141903-The-Bodily-Resurrection-of-Jesus-part-3/page49


conclusion: These ideas above are straight out of the JW teachings. They teach verbatim His body was annihilated or rolled up like a garment and discarded. They made up that phrase. The JWs invented is seth. So quit playing dumb.

hope this helps !!!
I appreciate you posting all this. It may cause someone to want to re-examine their own doctrines and really look at what the Bible says.
Good work
 
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