Evil

Theo1689

Well-known member
Theo, once again your project on me erroneous intentions.

I believe you are wrong.
If ANYONE reads your previous posts, they know I'm right.
Multiple people have already said so.

If I am wrong, then the only conclusion is that you are an INCREDIBLY poor communicator, who doesn't know how to properly use the English language effectively.

Words have meaning.
And your previous posts conveyed meaning, even if you deny it now.

You may read into that however you wish but the fact is that that was the first time you even acknowledged an alternative Biblical view

Only hypothetically.

In reality, there is only ONE Biblical view: Calvinism.
But I recognize that others hold alternative views, and that is what I was referring to.

But again, I'm not interested in arguing with you.
Is that why you're here, because your husband is tired of arguing with you?
You simply want to pick an argument about EVERYTHING.
And frankly, I'm not interested.

“Stupid games”
What games? Are you playing games?

No, you are.
And I'm not interested.

As we all know Theo, theology turns on words. I think it’s critically important that we define terms when we are speaking about such broad terms and their implications

And that's where we disagree.
It is NOT up to "us" to define words.
It is up to the TEXTS to define words, by their USAGE.
And I have shown you the definition of "proginosko" ("foreknow").
Apparently, you reject the true definition, since it doesn't agree with your theology.
That's fine.
You can do whatever you want.
I don't care what you believe.
Go in peace.

what is the definition of “foreknowledge”

Why do you keep CHANGING "foreknow" (a VERB) to "foreknowledge" (a NOUN).
Romans 8, 11 have the VERB, not the noun.

But believe whatever you want.
I don't care what you believe.
Go in peace.

and contrast that with the definition of “sovereignty”
I think that’s critical before we can discuss further

I'm not INTERESTED in a "discussion" with you.
This is what your GAME was:

1) You asked what Calvinism taught, and where it was taught.
2) I was perfectly happy to answer your questions.
3) Now you want to ARGUE the issue.
4) This is called a "bait-and-switch" game.

I have no interest in "arguing" with you.
You can believe whatever you want. I don't care.
Go in peace.

so sin is the “will of God”?
Child molestation is the “will of God”?

Was the murder of Jesus a sin?
Yes, it was a sin, and God orchestrated it.

Is "Child molestation" worse than the murder of the sinless Son of God?
IMO, No.
You're appealing to emotions here, instead of appealing to the Bible.

But do whatever you want.
I don't care way you believe.
Believe whatever you want.
Go in peace.

I CAME TO A DEBATE AND DISCUSSION FORUM!

EXACTLY!
You were NOT HONEST with your original intent here.
You ORIGINALLY claimed you were only here to "learn".
Now you finally come clean and admit that you're simply here to ARGUE ("DEBATE!").

That's fine.
I'm not interested in arguing with you.
You can believe whatever you want.
I don't care what you believe.
Go in peace.

I sought out the safest place to ask these questions.
Nobody is forcing you to be here

I've been here for decades.
Nobody is going go try to pressure me to leave.
CERTAINLY not someone the likes of you.
 

Grayecxm

Member
You came here with the (obviously false) motive of "learning what Calvinism teaches", and "where we believe the Bible teaches Calvinist doctrines".

And no, you HAVE to accept these answers.
"Calvinism teaches <X>" -- you do NOT get to deny what Calvinism teaches.
"Calvinism uses <A>, <B>, <C> as their supporting Scriptures" -- you do NOT get to deny which Scriptures we use for supporting our doctrines.


And on a personal note (and I'd be surprised if most Calvinists (and even Arminians) didn't agree with me), but when I hear someone say:

"I don't know what Calvinism teaches, and and I don't know what parts of the Bible you use to support your theology, but I KNOW you're wrong, even though I don't even know what you believe"

You just put a lot of words in my mouth- completely lied about what I’ve said. Did I say I ”know you’re wrong“ about anything?
I was actually really enjoying talking to Rev but you keep attacking my intentions and clouding the conversation. You’re taking up my time because I’m having to defend my intentions repeatedly.

... that strikes me as a BIG problem.

Now you've finally come clean.
You're not here to "learn what Calvinism teaches".
You're here to ARGUE against Calvinism.

I don’t know how a Calvinist reconciles evil- my husband doesn’t either, I’m here to work that issue out- wherever that is arguing for or against truth claims or debating such- it’s all the learning process Theo. I don’t agree with everything and some things I’ve asked for scriptural support because I haven’t found it in the Bible- these are all valid forms of seeking the truth. Attach whatever you want to it but that’s more your problem Than mine


And as civic said, that's perfectly fine.
But you came here under FALSE premises.
You MISREPRESENTED yourself.
Show me how I lied about why I am here?
show me Theo


I personally couldn't care less what you believe.
You can believe whatever you want.
I have no personal interest in trying to convince you to accept Calvinism, if you don't want to accept Calvinism.

But you came here under FALSE premises.
You want (me) and others to ARGUE what you about whether Calvinism is true or false, and I have no desire to argue with you about it.

I'll tell you what Calvinism teaches.
I'll show you were the Bible teaches it.
But I'm NOT interested in arguing with you about it.
Then don’t. Simone

If you simply want to argue, then I say, go in peace.
you came to MY thread. Not Vice versa

That is your OPINION.
And I disagree with your OPINION.
And if you don't want to accept Calvinism, then DON'T.
Just go in peace.
Peace
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Again, you assign erroneous intentions to my questions.
Look how angry you get when you’re challenged-

Why do you constantly lie about me?
Are you truly ignorant of the fact that bearing false witness is a sin?
I have NEVER been "angry" in any exchange I've had with you.
You should be ashamed of yourself.

It seems to me Theo that you are the one who is not interested in the truth.

<Chuckle>
EVERY Calvinist here who knows me (and even some non-Calvinists, such as TibiasDad) would assure you that you are wrong on that.
But for someone reason you feel the need to lie about me again.
Bearing false witness is a sin.
But I don't care what you think of me.
God knows I care EVERYTHING about the truth.
I simply obey God (Matt. 7:6).

Believe what you want.
I don't care what you believe.
Go in peace.

You get angry when we don’t accept scriptures you provide

Bearing false witness is a sin.
I respectfully suggest you repent.
An apology might be in order as well.
But I won't hold my breath...

because the teaching isn’t there…

You haven't convinced me.
And I don't really care what you believe.
Believe whatever you want.
Go in peace.

Are you only comfortable with other Calvinists ?

Not at all.
I'm comfortable with many non-Calvinists who aren't rude, insulting, and bossy.

it seems to me that you may be looking for a sound board rather than an honest discussion.

Bearing false witness is a sin.
And constant personal attacks are just plain rude.
I respectfully suggest you repent.
And an apology might be in order.
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
You just put a lot of words in my mouth- completely lied about what I’ve said. Did I say I ”know you’re wrong“ about anything?
I was actually really enjoying talking to Rev but you keep attacking my intentions and clouding the conversation. You’re taking up my time because I’m having to defend my intentions repeatedly.
I'll talk to you...
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
you came to MY thread. Not Vice versa

First of all, this is NOT "[YOUR] thread".
You don't "own" the thread.
So kindly get over yourself.

Second of all, I came to "your" thread with the HIGHEST of intentions, to sincerely answer your questions, to the best of my ability.

And in response to that, you crapped on me, and insulted me.

Maybe you don't understand this, but people don't like to be insulted and disrespected when they try to HELP others.

Maybe that should be your meditation for the day.
 

Grayecxm

Member
I'm getting REALLY tired of you trying to impose your will on others, and demand that they respond in certain ways, and refrain from responding in certain ways.
how tired are you getting? REALLY tired?
lol that’s hilarious.
If civic wants to copy and paste pages and pages of irrelevant ideas/ free country- post away. I can’t say I’m going to be engaging in that though. I’m interested in how civic came to those conclusions themselves -not using the “even Arminius thinks this”

If you ask a question, or make a comment, it is up to the person responding to determine the most appropriate way to respond, NOT for you to determine that. If you don't like how a person responds, then you are free to ignore them. You are NOT free to boss them around. In fact, it is EXPLICITLY against the rules to try to change the behaviour of a poster, to try to tell them how to or how not to respond. It's also just basically rude.
then please stop telling me how to respond. Thank


When you try to limit how we respond to you, you limit how well we can answer your questions or concerns. So you are trying to PREVENT us from answering your question in an effective way. So if you don't want us to answer your questions effectively, why are you even here?

Of the only response someone has is a massive copy and paste- there’s nothing to respond to. That’s not the thoughts of that person- it’s just a massive copy and paste

That's because you don't understand the Bible, or theology.
tell me more about the things I don’t understand? You seem to be some kind of Oracle knowing all the things

I believe ReverendRV already explained to you that the Bible simply doesn't work that way.

There is no single verse that says, "The Trinity is true."
There is no single verse that says, "Calvinism is true."
There is no single verse that says, "Mormonism is false."
There is no single verse that says, "Total depravity is false".

Our theology is the sum and summary of what the ENTIRE Bible teaches, not simply a single "proof-text".
that’s why I took the time to go verse for verse. It’s just not there Theo- can you show me? I’m sorry you’re taking it so hard.

<Chuckle>

"Surely somewhere in the Bible we could find where God says He gave man a free will to make libertarian choices...But we don't- it's curiously absent."

Do you see the blatant double standard you're engaging in?



You're missing the point.
There is no ONE verse that teaches the Trinity.
And YOUR standard is, "a doctrine has to be completely found in one verse, or else it isn't true."
So if you actually BELIEVED your standard (which you clearly don't), you would be forced to REJECT the Trinity. But you don't.
That’s not my standard, I never said that. I said it’s interesting that a truth claim as huge as the decrees of God is nowhere to be found. Nowhere to be found. It’s interesting. But I’m still here looking and reading and searching the scriptures.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
how tired are you getting? REALLY tired?
lol that’s hilarious.

Thank you for showing the incredibly level of disrespect you have for anyone who tries to help you. Civic invests significant time and effort to help you, and all you do is criticize him and laugh off his response as "hilarious".

If civic wants to copy and paste pages and pages of irrelevant ideas/ free country- post away.

But that's the point.... It WASN'T "irrelevant".
If it was irrelevant, he wouldn't have included it.

But this is the issue, isn't it? According to you, it is YOU who is the sole determiner of truth. If you don't understand something, such as how something is irrelevant, you simply PROCLAIM it as "irrelevant". You never consider the possibility that you might not have 100% understanding, and that it might be useful to ask, "Why did you include that? How does it fit in?"

You don't seem to have ANY respect for ANYONE but yourself here, even when they're putting forth the effort to try to HELP you.

And that's sad.

then please stop telling me how to respond. Thank

I see. So you're a hypocrite.
Good to know.

tell me more about the things I don’t understand? You seem to be some kind of Oracle knowing all the things

You really have an attitude problem, don't you?

that’s why I took the time to go verse for verse. It’s just not there Theo- can you show me?

"Fool me once, shame on you.
Fool me twice, shame on me."

I've tried to help you, all you do in response is insult me and lie about me.
I don't care what you believe.
Believe whatever you want.
But I'm not going to enable you to further insult and lie about me.

I’m sorry you’re taking it so hard.

Bearing false witness is a sin.
You need to repent.

That’s not my standard, I never said that. I said it’s interesting that a truth claim as huge as the decrees of God is nowhere to be found. Nowhere to be found. It’s interesting. But I’m still here looking and reading and searching the scriptures.

It IS to be found.
But you don't WANT to "find" it.
You want to DEMAND that it be found in a "single verse", even though versification is an artificial construct of the Bible.
 

Grayecxm

Member
Why do you constantly lie about me?
Are you truly ignorant of the fact that bearing false witness is a sin?
I have NEVER been "angry" in any exchange I've had with you.
You should be ashamed of yourself.



<Chuckle>
EVERY Calvinist here who knows me (and even some non-Calvinists, such as TibiasDad) would assure you that you are wrong on that.
But for someone reason you feel the need to lie about me again.
Bearing false witness is a sin.
But I don't care what you think of me.
God knows I care EVERYTHING about the truth.
I simply obey God (Matt. 7:6).

Believe what you want.
I don't care what you believe.
Go in peace.



Bearing false witness is a sin.
I respectfully suggest you repent.
An apology might be in order as well.
But I won't hold my breath...



You haven't convinced me.
And I don't really care what you believe.
Believe whatever you want.
Go in peace.



Not at all.
I'm comfortable with many non-Calvinists who aren't rude, insulting, and bossy.



Bearing false witness is a sin.
And constant personal attacks are just plain rude.
I respectfully suggest you repent.
And an apology might be in order.
God decreed that I would say everything I said 😂 it must be his will
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
God decreed that I would say everything I said 😂 it must be his will

And God decreed you would be condemned for WILLFULLY CHOOSING to say everything you said, so you might want to consider wiping that smirk off your face.

This is not a game, Simone...
There are consequences to your actions.
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Where did we leave off Rev
Psalm 145:13 NET; Your kingdom is an eternal kingdom, and your dominion endures through all Generations.

There are many false teachings about religion and often they infiltrate our thinking, causing us to have a point of view that God didn’t mean for us to have. Our verse reminds me of a couple of errors that have crept into the Church. ~ Open Theism believes in a Christ-like God but one who has left us to our own devices, because he isn’t Omniscient. Deism is the belief that an unknown God created everything and also left us to our own devices. Who would want a God that would leave us and not use his own devices for our sake? ~ The evidence that the Church has been infiltrated by these false beliefs is the diminishing of a very important teaching from the Bible; God’s Providence. You ask, “What exactly is Providence?”
 

Grayecxm

Member
Psalm 145:13 NET; Your kingdom is an eternal kingdom, and your dominion endures through all Generations.

There are many false teachings about religion and often they infiltrate our thinking, causing us to have a point of view that God didn’t mean for us to have. Our verse reminds me of a couple of errors that have crept into the Church. ~ Open Theism believes in a Christ-like God but one who has left us to our own devices, because he isn’t Omniscient. Deism is the belief that an unknown God created everything and also left us to our own devices. Who would want a God that would leave us and not use his own devices for our sake? ~ The evidence that the Church has been infiltrated by these false beliefs is the diminishing of a very important teaching from the Bible; God’s Providence. You ask, “What exactly is Providence?”
Yes, Gods providence is a new phrase I’m just starting to hear often- I think Piper just wrote a book by that name? I could be mistaken.
Can you tell me about that word and what it means in contrast to Gods sovereignty?
I’m not sure I’ve been able to really see much difference
 

Stephen

Active member
Psalm 145:13 NET; Your kingdom is an eternal kingdom, and your dominion endures through all Generations.

There are many false teachings about religion and often they infiltrate our thinking, causing us to have a point of view that God didn’t mean for us to have. Our verse reminds me of a couple of errors that have crept into the Church. ~ Open Theism believes in a Christ-like God but one who has left us to our own devices, because he isn’t Omniscient. Deism is the belief that an unknown God created everything and also left us to our own devices. Who would want a God that would leave us and not use his own devices for our sake? ~ The evidence that the Church has been infiltrated by these false beliefs is the diminishing of a very important teaching from the Bible; God’s Providence. You ask, “What exactly is Providence?”

You gotta love when a "Reverend" begins his discussion with untruths such as this.

@Grayecxm I suggest getting your information from more informed sources.
 

Rockson

Active member
You just put a lot of words in my mouth- completely lied about what I’ve said. Did I say I ”know you’re wrong“ about anything?
I was actually really enjoying talking to Rev but you keep attacking my intentions and clouding the conversation. You’re taking up my time because I’m having to defend my intentions repeatedly.
And that always seems to be the trick an odd one of them uses. Throw one down into a pit of presumptuous accusations and then take glee in seeing one spend their time to climb out it. You should never have been told that you were attacking anybody. People should give everyone here the benefit of the doubt that they're here to yes maybe have spirited debate and yes to challenge another's position but in claiming such is an attack creates the feeling of one not even been a good and noble person. Most unfortunate thus the reason I've put an odd person here on ignore.
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Yes, Gods providence is a new phrase I’m just starting to hear often- I think Piper just wrote a book by that name? I could be mistaken.
Can you tell me about that word and what it means in contrast to Gods sovereignty?
I’m not sure I’ve been able to really see much difference
God has the right to Govern his Creation; an everlasting Dominion that endures through all generations of humanity. In the Garden of Eden God gave Man Dominion over the world as its Governor; likewise God is our Governor. When we welcome our own Dominion, we validate the Dominion of others; if God is real he’s your Governor. ~ The Theologian Jacob Arminius teaches us this, ‘My sentiments respecting the Providence of God are these: It is present with, presides over all things, according to their essences, qualities, relations, actions, passions, places, times, stations, and habits, are subject to its governance, conservation, and direction. I except neither particular, sublunary, vile, nor contingent things, not even the free wills of men or of angels, either good or evil: And, still more; I don’t take away from the divine Providence governing even Sins themselves, whether we consider their commencement, their progress or their termination.’ ~ But you object, “How then is it even my fault when I Lie or steal??” The answer is found in the Bible; Jeremiah said that Judah sacrificed their children in a fire to a false Idol; but God said it never entered his Heart and Mind to cause them to Sin. And the Bible says when Joseph’s brothers sold him into Slavery that the brothers meant it for evil but God meant it for good, to save many lives…
 
Last edited:

ReverendRV

Well-known member
@Grayecxm My last two Posts were Paragraphs from my Gospel Tract on the Providence of God; the third paragraph is below, IE the Gospel...


Providence ~ by ReverendRV
Psalm 145:13 NET; Your kingdom is an eternal kingdom, and your dominion endures through all Generations.

There are many false teachings about religion and often they infiltrate our thinking, causing us to have a point of view that God didn’t mean for us to have. Our verse reminds me of a couple of errors that have crept into the Church. ~ Open Theism believes in a Christ-like God but one who has left us to our own devices, because he isn’t Omniscient. Deism is the belief that an unknown God created everything and also left us to our own devices. Who would want a God that would leave us and not use his own devices for our sake? ~ The evidence that the Church has been infiltrated by these false beliefs is the diminishing of a very important teaching from the Bible; God’s Providence. You ask, “What exactly is Providence?”

God has the right to Govern his Creation; an everlasting Dominion that endures through all generations of humanity. In the Garden of Eden God gave Man Dominion over the world as its Governor; likewise God is our Governor. When we welcome our own Dominion, we validate the Dominion of others; if God is real he’s your Governor. ~ The Theologian Jacob Arminius teaches us this, ‘My sentiments respecting the Providence of God are these: It is present with, presides over all things, according to their essences, qualities, relations, actions, passions, places, times, stations, and habits, are subject to its governance, conservation, and direction. I except neither particular, sublunary, vile, nor contingent things, not even the free wills of men or of angels, either good or evil: And, still more; I don’t take away from the divine Providence governing even Sins themselves, whether we consider their commencement, their progress or their termination.’ ~ But you object, “How then is it even my fault when I Lie or steal??” The answer is found in the Bible; Jeremiah said that Judah sacrificed their children in a fire to a false Idol; but God said it never entered his Heart and Mind to cause them to Sin. And the Bible says when Joseph’s brothers sold him into Slavery that the brothers meant it for evil but God meant it for good, to save many lives…

Through his Providence, God governs us in a way that he is NOT the Author of Sin. The Bible says that one of God’s names is translated as “God will provide”; God does provide us a way of escape! In the Old Testament Abraham was sent by God to sacrifice his only begotten son. His son Isaac noticed there was no animal for the offering, but Abraham knew that God would provide a lamb. As Abraham was about to sacrifice his son, God stopped him and testified of their Faith. Over to the side there was a ram caught in a thicket of thorns by its horns; God provided a substitute for the sacrifice! The Lord Jesus Christ is our Substitute who was executed for our Sins; the religious people of that day meant this for evil but God meant it for our good. Put your Faith in the Risen Lord Savior Jesus Christ and your Sins will be forgiven; you will not have to pay the eternal punishment for them in Hell. Repent of your Sin, confess Jesus Christ as your LORD and find a Church that will help you along your way. ~ We need a God who won’t leave us without the use of his devices. We’re Saved by Grace through Faith; not by our own devices…

Genesis 22:8a ESV; Abraham said, “God will provide for himself the lamb for a burnt offering, my son.”
 
Last edited:

Grayecxm

Member
And God decreed you would be condemned for WILLFULLY CHOOSING to say everything you said, so you might want to consider wiping that smirk off your face.

This is not a game, Simone...
There are consequences to your actions.
wow… I’m honestly shocked reading the things you write. I just spent some time reading our exchanges from the beginning and I would encourage you to take a gander yourself. I think it all speaks for itself.
I literally stand by everything I have said.
It’s crazy to me that you just “condemned” me with Gods authority in your statement. That’s absolutely heinous.
 
Top