Example of systemic racism

Faithoverbelief

Well-known member
No you haven't.
Yes, unfortunately I have. I have witnessed applications being tossed because the name was "black". You hide your head in the sand. When you see a young black man driving a Mercedes what's the first thing that pops in your mind? He's a lawyer? Or he's a drug dealer? I have enough racist acquaintances to know what the answer is. When you have enough individual racism it just blends into the system. They are starting to teach critical race theory which IMO continues the systemic racism.
 

Tweedle

Active member
Is telling white children that they were born racist an example of racism?
Of course that seems horrible. But that is not systemic racism at the child level. This is;


A child learns how he/she interacts with the world and how the world is expected to interact with them.

When a culture teaches people, young and old, that black people sit in the back of the bus, and that is how the normal world is, then any assault to that normality is fought against, usually by both sides.

But as to your question, I have a counter, is telling children they are born sinners wrong?
 

Magdalena

Well-known member
Of course that seems horrible. But that is not systemic racism at the child level. This is;


A child learns how he/she interacts with the world and how the world is expected to interact with them.

When a culture teaches people, young and old, that black people sit in the back of the bus, and that is how the normal world is, then any assault to that normality is fought against, usually by both sides.

But as to your question, I have a counter, is telling children they are born sinners wrong?
When incidences of racism pop up, they should be dealt with. But not every daycare does that. And not all people are racists.

Personally, I’ve never told a child they’re a sinner. But adults realize that we are because we all sin. There isn’t anyone who doesn’t sin in some way. But fortunately, most people are not racists.
 

Howie

Well-known member
Local. Licensed in two states. In case you missed it above, both states are 98% Caucasian.
Ok. I'm white. I live in a mixed-race community, white, black, brown, asian. We all get along just fine, all own brand home homes, all qualified for the loans.

I spent a lot of time travelling the country. I especially love the South. I am always pleased that all the colors of people, in the South, love one another and get along famously, but the media, and Socialists Democrat politicians never, ever bring that up ... ever.

Democrats are race-baiting, race mongers who are lying liars.

Nevertheless, lying liars need Christ as much as I do. So, I continue to pray for their salvation and for yours.
 

Howie

Well-known member
... When a culture teaches people, young and old, that black people sit in the back of the bus, and that is how the normal world is, then any assault to that normality is fought against, usually by both sides ...
Perhaps you haven't heard, but that stopped decades ago.

Howwver, I am curious, where were you not educated about history? Washington, D.C.?
But as to your question, I have a counter, is telling children they are born sinners wrong?
How are they going to know, if they are not told?
 

Backup

Well-known member
As she put it, they are rare, but not uncommon.

Unless someone from justice brings a federal civil rights count forward, it is punishable by the appraisal board, but will not produce a criminal charge.
I’m not saying this never happens. I’m sure some bad appraisers take bribes, too. If it becomes a pattern they will certainly get in a lot of trouble.

I’m just skeptical about a systemic problem.

It seems this sort of thing would be easy to research. Gather the appraisals from a lot of racially diverse neighborhoods and compare the values by race. Seems like it could be done in an afternoon. I imagine it has been.
 

Tweedle

Active member
When incidences of racism pop up, they should be dealt with. But not every daycare does that. And not all people are racists.
Agreed, but systemic racism isn't an obvious kind of racism like a simple act of racism commited by something like the sports section of the KKK newspaper.

Its in our ice cream:


Personally, I’ve never told a child they’re a sinner. But adults realize that we are because we all sin. There isn’t anyone who doesn’t sin in some way.

So this is kind of like an analogy to systemic racism. You will not say it is wrong to tell a child they are a sinner because in your mind you believe it is for the child's well being that they adopt this POV of faith so that they may understand how they are to be saved.

We let things slide.
 

Backup

Well-known member
Over 30 years ago I was sitting in the back seat of a friend's car. We were on a double date, and while sitting at a light, a group of young black people, mostly black men were walking by in the cross walk. The girl up in the front passenger seat reached over and locked her door. The black men saw what she did, and started laughing, smirking, etc. It was really embarrassing.

Then again, about ten years later, I was walking across a cross walk as well when the woman in the passenger seat of their car did the same thing. The ironic thing here is that her reaction was probably justifiable because as soon as she did that, I wanted to run up and jump on the hood of their car and start screaming at them.

I was in a seriously bad mood, and not to be trifled with, but I was on a much more important mission and harassing her just wasn't a priority.

Another time not long after that incident, I was walking on a park path, and as I was getting closer to an elderly woman ahead of me, I noticed that she reached down into her pocket to retrieve her keys which she held in such a way as to use them as a weapon. She held them so that the keys themselves were pointing out in between her fingers. I gave her a wide berth as I passed her just in case she decided to take a swing at me.

So I don't see it as systemic racism as much as systemic fear and paranoia.
I think this sort of thing is probably more common in racially homogeneous areas. If a white person doesn’t know many blacks, they might subscribe to silly stereotypes.

I live in a racially diverse area, and am much more likely to judge someone by how they dress and carry themselves than their race.

This works both ways. Notice how lily-white areas, like Portland are the strongholds of BLM protests? They have simplistic stereotypes too. Just because someone’s black doesn’t mean they’re nice. It infantilizes black peoples.
 

Magdalena

Well-known member
Agreed, but systemic racism isn't an obvious kind of racism like a simple act of racism commited by something like the sports section of the KKK newspaper.

Its in our ice cream:




So this is kind of like an analogy to systemic racism. You will not say it is wrong to tell a child they are a sinner because in your mind you believe it is for the child's well being that they adopt this POV of faith so that they may understand how they are to be saved.

We let things slide.
I did not say that. Stop trying to put words in my posts that aren’t there.

That link you posted... that’s insanity.
 

Gus Bovona

Well-known member
Believe what you will, Gus,
That's exactly the problem: believing what you will. I just posted up a link to an actual study on the issue, and I quoted an explanation from Richard Carrier of what systemic racism is. If you **don't** want to believe what you will - if you want to follow logic and evidence - you can challenge specifics in that study and Carrier's hypothetical. If you want to believe what you will, then don't do any of that.

the US is not systemically racist. That's a lie, unless words don't mean anything.
Yes, and I've already said the opposite, so I don't know what you're on about. I, nor the Brookings study, nor Richard Carrier, have claimed that the US - as a whole - is systemically racist. Elements within the US may be.
 

Backup

Well-known member
When you see a young black man driving a Mercedes what's the first thing that pops in your mind? He's a lawyer? Or he's a drug dealer?
You would have to be pretty unworldly to not be aware there are lots of rich, successful black people.

I imagine this might be a problem in racially homogeneous areas, but not racially diverse areas.

The percentage of middle and upper class blacks in my area is about the same as whites. The troublemakers, of all races, are not driving Mercedes.

In my world, race is not an issue, I don’t worry about theft at the gym, because the sort of people with the discipline to go to the gym are not the type to steal. The type of people that spend their days hanging out in front of the convenience store are.

I understand this is not typical of racially homogeneous areas, which my be more distrustful of people they perceive as “other.”
 

Backup

Well-known member
Ok. I'm white. I live in a mixed-race community, white, black, brown, asian. We all get along just fine, all own brand home homes, all qualified for the loans.

I spent a lot of time travelling the country. I especially love the South. I am always pleased that all the colors of people, in the South, love one another and get along famously, but the media, and Socialists Democrat politicians never, ever bring that up ... ever.

Democrats are race-baiting, race mongers who are lying liars.

Nevertheless, lying liars need Christ as much as I do. So, I continue to pray for their salvation and for yours.
I agree that the South is the least racist part of the country. Basically it’s because that’s where the black people live and if your lawyer and banker are black it’s hard to subscribe to silly stereotypes.

People in New York and LA seem to imagine Southerners are still living in the 1950s.

The most racist city I’ve ever been to us Pittsburg, which actually gives credence to the OP, since it’s about Cincinnati, and they are kind of similar cities,
 

Michael R2

Well-known member
I’m not saying this never happens. I’m sure some bad appraisers take bribes, too. If it becomes a pattern they will certainly get in a lot of trouble.

I’m just skeptical about a systemic problem.

It seems this sort of thing would be easy to research. Gather the appraisals from a lot of racially diverse neighborhoods and compare the values by race. Seems like it could be done in an afternoon. I imagine it has been.
This comes down to how you wish to define systemic.
For me to see a problem as systemic, it would have to be a part of the industry across the nation. It would not have to be a major factor in the industry; in fact even if the incidences are rare, so long as it is throughout the industry, and accepted as something other than a local issue, I would call it systemic.
The Appraisal Institute, an international body, has recently admitted to the problem.
 

shnarkle

Well-known member
I think this sort of thing is probably more common in racially homogeneous areas. If a white person doesn’t know many blacks, they might subscribe to silly stereotypes.
I suppose it's possible. When I was small, we had a house keeper/cleaner who was black. She was like a mother to me. The area I grew up in was not racially diverse. There were two black families who had children in our neighborhood and my grade school with a few additional families with kids in the high school. They were all very nice normal people.

I had a friend who found himself in a predominantly black area of Oakland California one evening, and his overly insecure demeanor led him to begin frantically looking for any means possible to extricate himself from this dilemma. In the end, he was forced to resort to sprinting even though no one was chasing him.

I also used to occasionally find myself in these exact same areas, but my initial exposure was to enjoy some good ol' fashioned blues in a place called "Ely's". My naivete was on display, but I suspect that there's a fine line between the appearance of naivete and fearlessness.

A few years later, my naivete had vanished, but a drug addiction had replaced it, and along with it an engraved invitation to wander freely anywhere I pleased due to the fact that I had money to blow. As Booker T Washington noted, "their money is green". In other words, voluntary exchanges of goods and services, contracts, etc. are a great way to quench any lingering racial opposition, or feelings of prejudice. However, I can also concede that those who were taught to hate other races will have a tough time overcoming those inculcated prejudices even when huge profits are on the table. Fortunately, those people are long dead gone.
I live in a racially diverse area, and am much more likely to judge someone by how they dress and carry themselves than their race.
I would only add their actions. Years ago I was hanging out at one of the local taverns where everyone knew my name. The lone black patron of this establishment approached me one evening to inform me that he had seen my girlfriend with another man. He explained that he was under the impression that my girlfriend and I were a bit of an item, and that if the shoe were on the other foot he would appreciate it if someone made this information known to him. I shared his views, and thanked him for being the only person in the entire world who cared enough to tell me.
This works both ways. Notice how lily-white areas, like Portland are the strongholds of BLM protests? They have simplistic stereotypes too. Just because someone’s black doesn’t mean they’re nice. It infantilizes black peoples.
Well said! I wholeheartedly agree. Treating them as if they're victims is equally, or perhaps even worse.
 

Backup

Well-known member
This comes down to how you wish to define systemic.
For me to see a problem as systemic, it would have to be a part of the industry across the nation. It would not have to be a major factor in the industry; in fact even if the incidences are rare, so long as it is throughout the industry, and accepted as something other than a local issue, I would call it systemic.
The Appraisal Institute, an international body, has recently admitted to the problem.
I'm glad there seems to be an open discussion about this. I'm still a little leery of the idea of systemic racism in the appraisal business. It seems like a good way to lose your job, discredit your company, and open the door for speculators to come in and invest in undervalued houses.

Also this article said the family was asked to take down family photos, implying it was because they are black. Real estate agents always ask people to take down family photos when they are staging a house. It doesn't matter what color you are. It's that sort of thing that makes me think a lot of people are jumping to a predetermined conclusion.
 

Michael R2

Well-known member
I'm glad there seems to be an open discussion about this. I'm still a little leery of the idea of systemic racism in the appraisal business. It seems like a good way to lose your job, discredit your company, and open the door for speculators to come in and invest in undervalued houses.
That's fine. I've only got one leg over the fence on this one, but I'm thinking of scooting over it.
My friend did tell me there was one company that lost it's certification and license, but usually it ends up with only individual appraisers losing their jobs, but not always their certifications.
Also this article said the family was asked to take down family photos, implying it was because they are black. Real estate agents always ask people to take down family photos when they are staging a house. It doesn't matter what color you are. It's that sort of thing that makes me think a lot of people are jumping to a predetermined conclusion.
Many of the instances described involve two appraisals. The ones where the photos and other racially identifying bric-a-brac is removed are demonstrated to be higher. In some cases significantly higher. This does tend to imply a racial component.
As I said, for me, the fact that it does appear to be nationwide puts me closer to calling it systemic.
 

Authentic Nouveau

Well-known member
In June 2019, during the Democrat presidential primary debates, Sen. Kamala Harris (D-Calif.) blasted the now-nominee, Joe Biden, insinuating he was a racist for applauding segregationist senators and opposing a 1970s federal busing program that put children in schools based on race:

… it’s personal and it was hurtful to hear you talk about the reputations of two United States senators who built their reputations and career on the segregation of race in this country. It was not only that, but you also worked with them to oppose busing.

Biden gung hoe racist according to Kamalala Hoe.
 
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