Why can’t you people debate in good faith?
Gus has made his position clear and supported it with sound sources, yet you have to move the goalpost.
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Example of systemic racism
- Thread starter Faithoverbelief
- Start date
Gus has made his position clear and supported it with sound sources, yet you have to move the goalpost.
Faithoverbelief
Well-known member
It doesn't. I have stated and will state again critical race theory is racism. There are no races. It is a made up concept.Could you explain how white people working on the underground railroad to free black slaves fits in with Critical race theory?
Faithoverbelief
Well-known member
It's not a secret and it can be overcome that does not mean it doesn't exist.The fact that black Nigerians are the most successful ethnic group in America is obviously an argument against the idea of systemic racism.
Lots of groups work hard and respect education, but a group that happens to be black lands on top. Seems unlikely if the entire system is secretly conspiring against them.
The immediate rejection of Nigerian success in America by people that promote the idea of systemic racism makes it seem even more like a conspiracy theory.
I am not, "you people," you collectivist. I am an individual.Why can’t you people debate in good faith?
Go away.Gus has made his position clear and supported it with sound sources, yet you have to move the goalpost.
You are just assuming systemic racism exists and Nigerians are somehow able to overcome it.It's not a secret and it can be overcome that does not mean it doesn't exist.
Will you at least entertain the idea that since the most successful ethnic group in America is black, maybe it’s not racism holding people back.
Just telling black people that every institution in America is designed to keep them down might discourage them from trying.
Try defending your position honestly.I am not, "you people," you collectivist. I am an individual.
Go away.
Try, for once, to see if you can.
Assumes, without proof, that you could recognize honesty.Try defending your position honestly.
Try, for once, to see if you can.
HillsboroMom
Active member
Yes, and I posted several that showed that Nigerians are not the most successful ethnic group in the US, nor the most educated.Have you tried doing a quick Google search? I don’t know if you are trolling me, so I will do it for you and see how you react. If you move the goalpost or pull a red herring I won’t in the future.
They are more successful than the median, the average US citizen. But not even close to "the most successful."
I am not familiar with "ozy.com," who pays for it, or where they get their funding. However, they contradict multiple other sites that are more reputable -- including the US Census. So I would have to say they are highly suspect.
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I guess I expect too much from you peopleAssumes, without proof, that you could recognize honesty.
HillsboroMom
Active member
You are just assuming systemic racism exists and Nigerians are somehow able to overcome it.
Will you at least entertain the idea that since the most successful ethnic group in America is black, maybe it’s not racism holding people back.
Just telling black people that every institution in America is designed to keep them down might discourage them from trying.
"Most Americans eat inside. Therefore, it's impossible to eat outside."
If someone said that to you, you would say they were idiotic, ridiculous, and/or unscientific.
It is possible to eat outside. Many people do it all the time. It isn't as common, certainly. It requires a little extra planning -- what if it rains, consider clean-up if there's no water source, etc. But it is possible, and in fact sometimes even more enjoyable than the alternatives.
It is possible for non-white people to achieve success in any field. An African American person can become a scientist, an actor, a lawyer, a doctor, a model, an astronaut, absolutely ANYTHING he or she wants to be. Same goes for someone from any ethnic or racial background.
Saying that the US has systematic racism does not mean black and brown people can't succeed. It means black and brown people face more obstacles in every facet of life than white people do due to the color of their skin. It also doesn't mean that all white people succeed, or that all white people skate through life with no problem, and get everything handed to them on a platter. Many white people face struggles every day. The concept of cross-sectionality means that white people may belong to other marginalized groups that may increase their struggles. White women face oppression from sexism. White people who are members of the LGBTQ+ community face oppression as sexual minorities. Poor white people face all kinds of struggles that black and brown rich people don't, due to classism.
Systematic racism in the US doesn't mean a white person is never going to face challenges or struggles. It just means that, for that white person, the struggle or challenge will never be because of the color of their skin.
Your ilk expects nothing but submission to what the collective believes, even when you, yourself, don't understand what the collective is moving towards ... 😉I guess I expect too much from you people
search:Yes, and I posted several that showed that Nigerians are not the most successful ethnic group in the US, nor the most educated.
They are more successful than the median, the average US citizen. But not even close to "the most successful."
I am not familiar with "ozy.com," who pays for it, or where they get their funding. However, they contradict multiple other sites that are more reputable -- including the US Census. So I would have to say they are highly suspect.
“Financial Times What makes Nigerians in diaspora so successful”
That’s a mainstream source (copying and pasting the link goes to the subscription page)
I suspect you are resistant to the idea of successful black people because it goes against your predetermined conclusion.
My first link was just the first thing that came up on Google. Sounds like you learned how to use search engines since you asked me to do it for you.
noYour ilk expects nothing but submission to what the collective believes, even when you, yourself, don't understand what the collective is moving towards ... 😉
We expect people to behave like honest adults.
Just kidding...I don’t expect you people to behave like honest adults.
HillsboroMom
Active member
Two problems with your theory.The fact that black Nigerians are the most successful ethnic group in America is obviously an argument against the idea of systemic racism.
(1) "Black Nigerians" are not the most successful ethnic group in America. We have shown you that your one link doesn't even prove that they are, and we have shown multiple links that show they aren't. They are more successful than the average American. That's awesome. They are absolutely more education-centered than the average American, and their work ethic is superior to the average American. No argument from me on that. But they are not "the most successful ethnic group" in America. It simply is not a fact. You have stated it, but nothing you have provided supports it, and several sources in fact contradict it.
(2) If the definition of "systematic racism" was "a system in which all people of the un-favored races are denied opportunities 100% of the time, and all people of the favored races are given opportunities easily 100% of the time," then you would indeed be able to disprove its existence by pointing to Nigerian-Americans. Hell, you wouldn't even have to go that far. Just say, "Oprah Winfrey. One of the wealthiest women in the USA today, bar none. Game, set, match."
But that is not what "systematic racism" means.
Systematic racism means that the ***system*** -- not one specific person, not any group of people, but a system that has been put in place -- has made it so that it is actually harder for some people than for others. Not impossible for some and easy for others.
Here's a great example:
Imagine you're in a classroom. Traditional classroom, 4-5 rows of chairs, 4-5 kids in each row. The teacher places a waste basket at the front of the room and asks every student to crumple up a piece of paper and toss it in.
Most of the students in the front row are going to make the basket. Not all, but most. Especially the two kids in the middle.
There will probably be one or two kids in the back row who will manage to get a basket from way back there, but most probably won't. Especially the back two corners.
Obviously, there is a lot of skill involved in "making a basket." Kids who are good with gross motor skills and hand-eye coordination are going to do better. But no one is going to argue that the kids in the front row and the middle columns are at an advantage over the kids further away. Miles of "duh" at work here.
Systematic racism says that some people are closer to the "basket" than others, through no merit of their own, and some people are further away, through no fault of their own. It doesn't say people who are further away should just quit. On the contrary, a good teacher will encourage those two work all the harder.
Except it doesn't. In the US, the group on top is Korean Americans. Who are still victims of systematic racism, but since "systematic racism" doesn't mean "you'll never succeed" but rather "you have to work even harder to succeed," then the group(s) that push education and hard work the most are going to succeed the most.Lots of groups work hard and respect education, but a group that happens to be black lands on top. Seems unlikely if the entire system is secretly conspiring against them.
Which means it makes total sense why Nigerans are above the median, and so far above native-born African Americans who are not born into the same culture of hard work and education.
I don't know who you think is "rejecting Nigerian success."The immediate rejection of Nigerian success in America by people that promote the idea of systemic racism makes it seem even more like a conspiracy theory.
Myself and others are pointing out that Nigerian Americans are not, according to actual numbers, the #1 MOST successful demographic in the US. That isn't because we reject the success of Nigerians. It's because we reject false statements that are not based in facts and statistics from reputable sources like the US Census Bureau.
Someone who insists that "Nigerian Americans are the most successful group in America" despite being shown, multiple times, that this is simply not the case, according to the actual numbers, and insists that it is, repeatedly, seems to me like he'd rather cling to his own racism than accept reality.
Contradiction: you support the Democrats and scientists who lie about mmgw.no
We expect people to behave like honest adults.
smhJust kidding...I don’t expect you people to behave like honest adults.
HillsboroMom
Active member
I have no problem with the idea of successful black people. I am THRILLED with successful black people. I cheer for ALL of them to be successful.search:
“Financial Times What makes Nigerians in diaspora so successful”
That’s a mainstream source (copying and pasting the link goes to the subscription page)
I suspect you are resistant to the idea of successful black people because it goes against your predetermined conclusion.
My first link was just the first thing that came up on Google. Sounds like you learned how to use search engines since you asked me to do it for you.
I have been doing research searches probably longer than you've been alive, since long before the internet was invented.
The statistics I posted showed that many sub-ethnic groups -- including dozens of black and brown people -- are indeed very successful.
And yes, Nigerian Americans are more successful than the average American. I have pointed out that the numbers DO suggest this, and I agree with the reasons given as to why that might be.
But saying that a group is successful, and that they are THE MOST SUCCESSFUL GROUP IN THE UNITED STATES are two totally different things.
Googling is not just putting some words into the google bar and posting the first thing that comes up that seems to agree with what you believe. You actually have to follow the links, see what they say, and guess what .... see the SOURCE of those links. A lot of stuff on the internet is just not reputable.
Anyone can publish anything on the internet. Most of it is crap. "You can't believe everything you read on the internet." I'm pretty sure George Washington said that.
I could publish something that says "BACKUP IS THE STUPIDEST PERSON IN THE WORLD" on the internet, and if it gets enough likes, it could easily come up in a search. Does that mean your more ignorant than all 8 billion other people on the planet? Well, it must be, because there it is, in black and white. It must be true.
(For the record, I don't believe that, and I'm being completely sarcastic to make a point here.)
Here's a little tidbit you may not been aware of: Google learns from your recent history. It brings up "relevant sources" based on other things you've searched. If two people type the exact same string into the google search bar, they will not get the exact same result. Google will filter their results based on each person's algorithm.
I am a math nerd. I tend towards scientific and statistically relevant sites. Lots of government stuff, too. So those are the things that will show up first in my feed in a search.
The site you showed us is from some organization called "ozy.com." I did a little googling on it. Here's what I discovered:
ozy.com (styled OZY) is an international media and entertainment company launched in September 2013 by former CNN and MSNBC news anchor, journalist, and businessman Carlos Watson and Goldman Sachs alumnus Samir Rao.
You want to put this against US Census Bureau?
Really?
Double standard. Rejecting a source isn't moving the goalpost.Gus has made his position clear and supported it with sound sources, yet you have to move the goalpost.
You ought to know that. You reject sources all the time.
Blah..blah blah...blah blah
Is that Norweigen? Let me check the google translator. Oh, no, you are mistaken, you are not suppose to worship me.
Ironically, the only racist I've seen in Florida has Ohio license plates.
And I should of said that it is unfair to make a general statement that means all of rural Florida is racist. That would be wrong on my part and I think that is why @Hillsborosmom angry faced me, and she was right for doing so, if that is in fact the case. Also, this is only from my personal experience and it is from a limited area of rural Florida. But, oh man, I could not flee that area fast enough. The natural and comfortable way the "N" word just rolled off their tounges in small talk.
But your reply is really funny.