Experiential Theology

Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
So you don't agree with a Sunday resurrection?
After sundown on Saturday evening, sure - no problem. what we DON'T agree with is the Catholic phony "Holy Week" chronology, and it's idiotic self serving rationalizations. Jesus was crucified on WEDNESDAY.
What about Christ's promises to the Church?
All fulfilled, the Holy SPirit is IN US, and after Acts 2:4 also ON us, and he guides the church - which was never an "Institution", or a corporation like the Roman Corp, but composed of ALL, and ONLY PEOPLE who are Born again of the Holy Spirit.
 

Arch Stanton

Well-known member
All fulfilled, the Holy SPirit is IN US, and after Acts 2:4 also ON us, and he guides the church - which was never an "Institution", or a corporation like the Roman Corp, but composed of ALL, and ONLY PEOPLE who are Born again of the Holy Spirit.
A physical church Bob.... a city set on a mountain cannot be hidden
 

Hawkeye

Active member
So you don't agree with a Sunday resurrection?
Well....when it's documented by history that the birth of our Savior occurred in 5 B.C. and the calendar shows the 14th of Nisan (Day of Preparation) would be on a Tuesday evening at the time of His last Passover......it's kind of difficult to remain with tradition.
What about Christ's promises to the Church?
What about them?
As in the draft [NFL], you are on the clock....
I won't force your hand. If anyone else desires those Biblical passages... I will list them. You obviously are having a difficult time answering the question.
and probably want to know your 'denomination' as well.
Why is that important to you?
 

Arch Stanton

Well-known member
Well....when it's documented by history that the birth of our Savior occurred in 5 B.C.
about 747 or 748 [5 or 6 B.C.]
and the calendar shows the 14th of Nisan (Day of Preparation) would be on a Tuesday evening at the time of His last Passover
Christ offers the Lord's Supper “on the first day of unleavened bread, when they sacrificed the Passover lamb” [Mark 14:12; cf. Matt. 26:17, Luke 22:7]. The first Mass would be Thursday, the fourteenth of Nisan.
What about them?
The Holy Spirit protects the Church from error
I won't force your hand.
got it
You obviously are having a difficult time answering the question.
No difficulty at all... you not understanding my answers may be the issue
Why is that important to you?
not sure where I put 'important', just curious as to your 'belief system'
 

Hawkeye

Active member
about 747 or 748
Is that A.U.C.? From the beginning of the Roman state?
[5 or 6 B.C.]
Between 5 and 4 B.C.
Christ offers the Lord's Supper “on the first day of unleavened bread, when they sacrificed the Passover lamb” [Mark 14:12; cf. Matt. 26:17, Luke 22:7]. The first Mass would be Thursday, the fourteenth of Nisan.
Most bibles are in error regarding [Matthew 26:17] as it says the "First day of the Feast". Actually.....the Feast began on the 15th [Leviticus 23:6] but Mark and Luke show the correct date.....the day they killed the Passover lamb...the 14th [Exodus 12:6]. The correct Greek of Matthew 26:17 says only this...

And on the first of the unleavened food came the disciples near to Jesus, saying to him, ‘Where wilt thou [that] we may prepare for thee to eat the passover?’

The Israelites were to begin eating unleavened on the day of preparation (the 14th).....but the Feast did not begin until the 15th.

The 14th of Nisan in the year of the crucifixion fell on a Tuesday evening/Wednesday daylight.....from sunset to sunset.

The Holy Spirit protects the Church from error.
I wouldn't disagree. That's one reason I know the Catholic faith is not the true faith. It is filled with error.
No difficulty at all... you not understanding my answers may be the issue
Could be. Please enlighten me as to my misunderstanding.
not sure where I put 'important', just curious as to your 'belief system'
I base my beliefs on scripture and hold to no man's corporate religion.
 

Arch Stanton

Well-known member
Is that A.U.C.? From the beginning of the Roman state?
yes
Most bibles are in error regarding [Matthew 26:17] as it says the "First day of the Feast". Actually.....the Feast began on the 15th [Leviticus 23:6] but Mark and Luke show the correct date.....the day they killed the Passover lamb...the 14th [Exodus 12:6]. The correct Greek of Matthew 26:17 says only this...

And on the first of the unleavened food came the disciples near to Jesus, saying to him, ‘Where wilt thou [that] we may prepare for thee to eat the passover?’

The Israelites were to begin eating unleavened on the day of preparation (the 14th).....but the Feast did not begin until the 15th.

The 14th of Nisan in the year of the crucifixion fell on a Tuesday evening/Wednesday daylight.....from sunset to sunset.
If you have the time and curiosity, go to Catholic Answers 'How do we explain the Passover "Discrepancy"?' and 'The timing of Jesus' death'.
I wouldn't disagree. That's one reason I know the Catholic faith is not the true faith. It is filled with error.
Your personal interpretation of scripture is duly noted.
Could be. Please enlighten me as to my misunderstanding.
I wouldn't know, it would be your view of my response that is unclear.
I base my beliefs on scripture and hold to no man's corporate religion.
As do millions of Christians, all with different core [essential?] beliefs... even though the Holy Spirit is not the author of confusion.
 

Arch Stanton

Well-known member
Which is nothing but "Just another Ritual" invented by the Catholics over the centuries, in place of anything real.
The Didache

Assemble on the Lord’s Day, and break bread and offer the Eucharist: but first make confession of your faults, so that your sacrifice may be a pure one. Anyone who has a difference with his fellow is not to take part with you until he has been reconciled, so as to avoid any profanation of your sacrifice [Matt. 5:23—24]. For this is the offering of which the Lord has said, "Everywhere and always bring me a sacrifice that is undefiled, for I am a great king, says the Lord, and my name is the wonder of nations" [Mal. 1:11, 14] (Didache 14 [A.D. 70).

Ignatius of Antioch

Make certain, therefore, that you all observe one common Eucharist; for there is but one body of our Lord Jesus Christ, and but one cup of union with his blood, and one single altar of sacrifice —even as there is also but one bishop, with his clergy and my own fellow servitors, the deacons. This will ensure that all your doings are in full accord with the will of God (Letter to the Philadelphians 4 [A.D. 110]).
 

Hawkeye

Active member
If you have the time and curiosity, go to Catholic Answers 'How do we explain the Passover "Discrepancy"?' and 'The timing of Jesus' death'.
Well....thank you for your recommendation.....but I see no discrepancy when reading the literal Greek. Over the years dishonest translators have attempted to skew the language to conform to their own traditions.

A good example is [Matthew 28:1][Mark 16:2][Luke 24:1] and [John 20:1]. All of these passages in 99% of all published translations will say......."First Day of the Week"....implying an event taking place on Sunday.

They are all wrong. The Greek says....."First of the Sabbaths". Any first century Hebrew would tell you that the phrase makes reference to [Leviticus 23:15].
This is the Count of the Omer from Passover (Pesach) to Pentecost (Shavuot)....fifty days from the sacrifice to the giving of the Law.

Seven sabbaths were to be counted from the Feast of First-fruits or Passover. Consequently, these came to be known as "First Sabbath," "Second Sabbath" etc., down to the seventh. And according to Julian Morgenstern, former President of Hebrew University, this practice continued in Galilee till the time of Christ or the Common Era. It is still observed by some groups in Palestine today. Thus, there was an annual date known as "First Sabbath," just after Passover. (p. 230, The Life of Christ in Stereo)


When you eliminate all the purposeful incorrect translations ................you find no discrepancies. There are many that become instantly clear in the Greek.
Your personal interpretation of scripture is duly noted.
Well....like I said....it's really just reading what the original language has to say....and not some biased translation. The worst offender in my opinion is the "King James".
I wouldn't know, it would be your view of my response that is unclear.
??
As do millions of Christians, all with different core [essential?] beliefs... even though the Holy Spirit is not the author of confusion.
No....but Satan is. And he spends all his time on Christianity. He couldn't care less about Buddism, Islam, Hindism. Wiccan.......etc. They're all lost anyway. Why waste his time.
 

theMadJW

Member
Experiential theology is experiencing the power of the Holy Spirit who miraculously changes our hearts. That is called conversion and is what makes us a NEW creation in Christ. (Jn 1:12-13) and gives us birth into the family of God.

But unfortunately, there are many professed teachers and pastors today who deny that receiving the Holy Spirit is an experience because they see deceiving spirits in many professed Christians, then automatically deny that the Holy Spirit is also an experience.

Why not explain how the 'God-Ghost' filled people, is poured out, never told to worship, never seen it the visions of God and Christ, not sitting on God's LEFT, was referred to God as "it", a portion filling each of the 70 elders (Num 11) and was in Job's nostrils (Job 27:3).

The we can get into your " Experiential Theology "....
 

Arch Stanton

Well-known member
Well....thank you for your recommendation.....but I see no discrepancy when reading the literal Greek. Over the years dishonest translators have attempted to skew the language to conform to their own traditions.

A good example is [Matthew 28:1][Mark 16:2][Luke 24:1] and [John 20:1]. All of these passages in 99% of all published translations will say......."First Day of the Week"....implying an event taking place on Sunday.

They are all wrong. The Greek says....."First of the Sabbaths". Any first century Hebrew would tell you that the phrase makes reference to [Leviticus 23:15].
This is the Count of the Omer from Passover (Pesach) to Pentecost (Shavuot)....fifty days from the sacrifice to the giving of the Law.

Seven sabbaths were to be counted from the Feast of First-fruits or Passover. Consequently, these came to be known as "First Sabbath," "Second Sabbath" etc., down to the seventh. And according to Julian Morgenstern, former President of Hebrew University, this practice continued in Galilee till the time of Christ or the Common Era. It is still observed by some groups in Palestine today. Thus, there was an annual date known as "First Sabbath," just after Passover. (p. 230, The Life of Christ in Stereo)

When you eliminate all the purposeful incorrect translations ................you find no discrepancies. There are many that become instantly clear in the Greek. Well....like I said....it's really just reading what the original language has to say....and not some biased translation. The worst offender in my opinion is the "King James".
might not be the translation.... both articles come from different angles
Well....like I said....it's really just reading what the original language has to say....and not some biased translation. The worst offender in my opinion is the "King James".
like phago and trogo [Jn 6]
No....but Satan is. And he spends all his time on Christianity. He couldn't care less about Buddism, Islam, Hindism. Wiccan.......etc. They're all lost anyway. Why waste his time.
Indeed!
 

Kerwyn

Well-known member
The Didache

Assemble on the Lord’s Day, and break bread and offer the Eucharist: but first make confession of your faults, so that your sacrifice may be a pure one. Anyone who has a difference with his fellow is not to take part with you until he has been reconciled, so as to avoid any profanation of your sacrifice [Matt. 5:23—24]. For this is the offering of which the Lord has said, "Everywhere and always bring me a sacrifice that is undefiled, for I am a great king, says the Lord, and my name is the wonder of nations" [Mal. 1:11, 14] (Didache 14 [A.D. 70).

Ignatius of Antioch

Make certain, therefore, that you all observe one common Eucharist; for there is but one body of our Lord Jesus Christ, and but one cup of union with his blood, and one single altar of sacrifice —even as there is also but one bishop, with his clergy and my own fellow servitors, the deacons. This will ensure that all your doings are in full accord with the will of God (Letter to the Philadelphians 4 [A.D. 110]).
Also from the Didache:

Now concerning the Eucharist, give thanks this way. First, concerning the cup:

We thank thee, our Father, for the holy vine of David Thy servant, which You madest known to us through Jesus Thy Servant; to Thee be the glory for ever..

And concerning the broken bread:
We thank Thee, our Father, for the life and knowledge which You madest known to us through Jesus Thy Servant; to Thee be the glory for ever. Even as this broken bread was scattered over the hills, and was gathered together and became one, so let Thy Church be gathered together from the ends of the earth into Thy kingdom; for Thine is the glory and the power through Jesus Christ for ever..

But let no one eat or drink of your Eucharist, unless they have been baptized into the name of the Lord; for concerning this also the Lord has said, "Give not that which is holy to the dogs."

Nothing about the body/soul/divinity of Christ.
 

Arch Stanton

Well-known member
Also from the Didache:
But let no one eat or drink of your Eucharist, unless they have been baptized into the name of the Lord; for concerning this also the Lord has said, "Give not that which is holy to the dogs."

Nothing about the body/soul/divinity of Christ.
A cracker isn't holy
 

Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
The Didache

Assemble on the Lord’s Day, and break bread and offer the Eucharist: but first make confession of your faults, so that your sacrifice may be a pure one. Anyone who has a difference with his fellow is not to take part with you until he has been reconciled, so as to avoid any profanation of your sacrifice [Matt. 5:23—24]. For this is the offering of which the Lord has said, "Everywhere and always bring me a sacrifice that is undefiled, for I am a great king, says the Lord, and my name is the wonder of nations" [Mal. 1:11, 14] (Didache 14 [A.D. 70).

Ignatius of Antioch

Make certain, therefore, that you all observe one common Eucharist; for there is but one body of our Lord Jesus Christ, and but one cup of union with his blood, and one single altar of sacrifice —even as there is also but one bishop, with his clergy and my own fellow servitors, the deacons. This will ensure that all your doings are in full accord with the will of God (Letter to the Philadelphians 4 [A.D. 110]).
SO - Nothing from God's word then. Just anecdotal stuff from corrupted supporters?
 

Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
Well Bob, you did say 'invented by the Catholics over the centuries', so glad you see the Catholic Church in AD 70. That is progress! 😌 ;)
After the Apostolic witness was lost, things organizationally went into the bucket FAST, as Paul warned that they would with false teachers and false prophets. And so they now have a phony Goddess, and Universalist Pope telling folks the Islamics and Jews don't need to be evangelized.
 

Hawkeye

Active member
I won't force your hand. If anyone else desires those Biblical passages... I will list them. You obviously are having a difficult time answering the question.
Well....I've had a request to list the biblical passages of the first century where the Apostles (or the Church) are observing Feast Days that modern Christianity disdains because of false traditions that have crept in to our liturgy. Many folks are led to believe that "Presto Bingo"....the day after the resurrection....everything just changed. This is silly.

I started out on this thread observing the false doctrine of being born again but it quickly developed into something else.....practices and traditions of "Mainstream Christianity". Here are some example of the traditions and practices of the Apostles.....and we should ask ourselves.....why did these things disappear from our worship? I'll quote from "Young's Literal Translation".

[Acts 2:1] And in the day of the Pentecost being fulfilled, they were all with one accord at the same place,

Shavuot, (Pentecost) of course is one of the three primary days that Yahweh had commanded us to observe [Exodus 23:14-17] and the Apostles are observing it here 50 days after the crucifixion.

[I Corinthians 16:8] and I will remain in Ephesus till the Pentecost,

The above is about 25 years after the resurrection and is still marking time by it.

[Acts 20:16] for Paul decided to sail past Ephesus, that there may not be to him a loss of time in Asia, for he hasted, if it were possible for him, on the day of the Pentecost to be at Jerusalem.

Why was it important to Paul to be in Jerusalem by Shavuot?

[Acts 12:3-4] and having seen that it is pleasing to the Jews, he added to lay hold of Peter also — and they were the days of the unleavened food — whom also having seized, he did put in prison, having delivered [him] to four quaternions of soldiers to guard him, intending after the Passover to bring him forth to the people.

Most modern translations will say "Easter" instead of Passover. This is at least 5 or 6 years after the resurrection and the Apostles are still observing Passover.

[Acts 18:20-21] and they having requested [him] to remain a longer time with them, he did not consent, but took leave of them, saying, ‘It behoveth me by all means the coming feast to keep at Jerusalem, and again I will return unto you — God willing.’ And he sailed from Ephesus,

The above takes place about 52 A.D. and Paul is still observing the Feast of Tabernacles, Sukkot. This is more than two decades after the resurrection.

[I Corinthians 5:8] so that we may keep the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of evil and wickedness, but with unleavened food of sincerity and truth.

Paul again mentions Aquila and Priscilla sending their greetings from Corinth so the above takes place at the same time, same place mentioned in [Acts 18:20-21].....two decades after the resurrection.

[Acts 27:9] And much time being spent, and the sailing being now dangerous — because of the fast also being already past — Paul was admonishing,

This is the Day of Atonement....about 60 A.D. on his way to Rome....being sent there by Festus.....30 years after our Savior died. The Greek word used in this passage is NESTEUO which means "fast".....as in abstaining from food.

This is from Polycrates, a church father of the second century:
  • From His Epistle to Victor and the Roman Church Concerning the Day of Keeping the Passover.

As for us, then, we scrupulously observe the exact day, neither adding nor taking away. For in Asia great luminaries have gone to their rest, who shall rise again in the day of the coming of the Lord, when He cometh with glory from heaven and shall raise again all the saints. I speak of Philip, one of the twelve apostles, who is laid to rest at Hierapolis; and his two daughters, who arrived at old age unmarried; his other daughter also, who passed her life under the influence of the Holy Spirit, and reposes at Ephesus; John, moreover, who reclined on the Lord's bosom, and who became a priest wearing the mitre, and a witness and a teacher-he rests at Ephesus. Then there is Polycarp, both bishop and martyr at Smyrna; and Thraseas from Eumenia, both bishop and martyr, who rests at Smyrna. Why should I speak of Sagaris, bishop and martyr, who rests at Laodicea? of the blessed Papirius, moreover? and of Melito the eunuch, who performed all his actions under the influence of the Holy Spirit, and lies at Sardis, awaiting the visitation from heaven, when he shall rise again from the dead? These all kept the passover on the fourteenth. day of the month, in accordance with the Gospel, without ever deviating from it, but keeping to the rule of faith.

Moreover I also, Polycrates, who am the least of you all, in accordance with the tradition of my relatives, some of whom I have succeeded-seven of my relatives were bishops, and I am the eighth, and my relatives always observed the day when the people put away the leaven-I myself, brethren, I say, who am sixty-five years old in the Lord, and have fallen in with the brethren in all parts of the world, and have read through all Holy Scripture, am not frightened at the things which are said to terrify us. For those who are greater than I have said, "We ought to obey God rather than men."

Polycarp 70 A.D./155 A.D.


Polycarp is said to have been among those converted by the Apostles, and to have been a disciple of St. John; on the other hand, his martyrdom took place c 155 CE. He thus represents the generation linking the age of the New Testament to that of the Apologists.

Polycarp's life is known mainly from the writings of his disciple Irenaeus of Lyons, made familiar to a wide audience by the extensive quotations in Eusebius. Irenaeus is depicted as the heir to the Johannine tradition; his uncompromising opposition to the heretic Marcion is equated with the evangelist's to Cerinthus. Polycarp was also a defender of the Johannine Passover date, and late in life made a visit to Rome for inconclusive talks on the subject with Pope Anicetus. Besides John, Polycarp was connected with another outstanding figure of the apostolic church: Ignatius of Antioch addressed an epistle to him.

Of Polycarp's life little is known, but that little is highly interesting. Irenaeus was his disciple, and tells us that "Polycarp was instructed by the apostles, and was brought into contact with many who had seen Christ"
 
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