Explain "Idols" if man does not seek God.....

praise_yeshua

Well-known member
Thanks for agreeing to that. Right now I'm not trying to get you to believe in Regeneration, but to get you to acknowledge we're Totally Unable to believe without God's Grace; and you keep saying you agree to that. It's okay to believe in Illumination and be an Arminian...

So why are we Totally Unable without God's Grace?

That the excellency might be of God.....

2Co 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

In all things... He must have the Preeminence and Glory.

However, we must acknowledge that HE.... put us first in His Incarnation and Crucifixion. He still SERVES our interest. He DESIRES/DEMANDS our love and companionship.
 

TibiasDad

Well-known member
I just explained why.

What in the world is "prevening".....

Again. You're trying to fit my comments into your system. I do not accept YOUR systems. I will argue points according to Scripture but I will not allow you to establish your own boundaries.
A dictionary would be of considerable help…you might try using it!

Doug
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
That the excellency might be of God.....

2Co 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

In all things... He must have the Preeminence and Glory.

However, we must acknowledge that HE.... put us first in His Incarnation and Crucifixion. He still SERVES our interest. He DESIRES/DEMANDS our love and companionship.
Amen...

Why do we even need Grace to be Prevenient?
 

praise_yeshua

Well-known member
A dictionary would be of considerable help…you might try using it!

Doug

Yep. It might help you. "Prevening" isn't a word. "Prevene".... is a different story.

The English language is a hodgepodge of silliness wrapped in obscurity.

I know you would love to catch me in a mistake. You will not have to wait long. I'm full of them. This isn't one of them.
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
I'm interested in why you believe it must..... While I believe it is Prevenient, I could only speculate why it must be.
It must be Prevenient or else Faith is Prevenient; that's like the number one disagreement here, only one can be first...

If Faith is Prevenient, then Grace is Provisional for some...
 

praise_yeshua

Well-known member
It must be Prevenient or else Faith is Prevenient; that's like the number one disagreement here, only one can be first...

If Faith is Prevenient, then Grace is Provisional for some...

Okay. I understand what you're saying now. I disagree with the requirement but it is more of an disagreement in the simplicity you've used. It is more complicated than this. I don't have time now to give an example or deal adequately with this. I'll come back later.

Thanks
 

preacher4truth

Well-known member
No. Not american idols.... :)

If man does not seek God, then explain all the false gods that are in this world?
FIFY.

It is since not if man doesn't seek God, and that is the God of Scripture, specifically. But man does seek after other gods of his own liking and creation, not the God of Scripture. So, that is apples and oranges. None seek after God is just what it says in Romans 3.
 

Iconoclast

Active member
No. Not american idols.... :)

If man does not seek God, then explain all the false gods that are in this world?
Unsaved men and women are religious, Romans1 tells us that.
They have exchanged the glory of the true and living God, for dead idols.psa115.
Isa41-45, also explain this.

They hate the True God and His Holy law/word.They will not seek Him as He is.
So they invent false gods who allow them to sin
 

praise_yeshua

Well-known member
FIFY.

It is since not if man doesn't seek God, and that is the God of Scripture, specifically. But man does seek after other gods of his own liking and creation, not the God of Scripture. So, that is apples and oranges. None seek after God is just what it says in Romans 3.

I had it right to start with. I'll take what it says over what you've said about it.

Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Rom 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable;

The statement clear contains the context that they once existed. They BECAME.....
 

praise_yeshua

Well-known member
Unsaved men and women are religious, Romans1 tells us that.
They have exchanged the glory of the true and living God, for dead idols.psa115.
Isa41-45, also explain this.

They hate the True God and His Holy law/word.They will not seek Him as He is.
So they invent false gods who allow them to sin

Yes. Some did. Some didn't. Adam didn't. Seth didn't. Enoch didn't.

That is not part of the Calvinist narrative.
 

preacher4truth

Well-known member
I had it right to start with. I'll take what it says over what you've said about it.
You mean what Scripture says, not "what I've said about it."
Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Rom 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable;

The statement clear contains the context that they once existed. They BECAME.....
Um, it's a descriptive text concerning the fallen state of mankind.

Your false take presents a myriad of problems. But this appears to be status quo with you.

Maybe try again, and let someone teach you about context, the fall of man &c. Perhaps also look at Psalm 14 as well.
 
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TibiasDad

Well-known member
Yep. It might help you. "Prevening" isn't a word. "Prevene".... is a different story.

The English language is a hodgepodge of silliness wrapped in obscurity.

I know you would love to catch me in a mistake. You will not have to wait long. I'm full of them. This isn't one of them.
Prevening is the present tense participle of prevene depicting the ongoing action of going before, and thus is a word!

Doug
 

Iconoclast

Active member
You mean what Scripture says, not "what I've said about it."

Um, it's a descriptive text concerning the fallen state of mankind.

Your false take presents a myriad of problems. But this appears to be status quo with you.

Maybe try again, and let someone teach you about context, the fall of man &c. Perhaps also look at Psalm 14 as well.
Hello P.4.t,
Many are eager to type things on a keyboard.
They are not as eager to do the work of studying God's word in detail.
Instead there is an obsession with explaining away text after text, as if the texts are not God given.
You have offered him correction, looks as if he is fixing to resist.
 
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