Explain "Idols" if man does not seek God.....

praise_yeshua

Well-known member
I did not respond until after regeneration, just like all others who are regenerated by the Spirit. See, still nothing special about me.

Yes. You have made yourself "special" by claiming regeneration for yourself and excluding others that are just like you.

And as long as he is unregenerate he responds in the negative.

You're presenting a scenario contrary to fact. Seeking God is not negative. The fool has said in his heart there is no God. Those that seek God are not fools.

The Calvinist position has always been that those seek.... FIND....

Mat 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
Mat 7:8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

The Calvinist have always trumpeted. There are NONE that seek after God.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Yes. You have made yourself "special" by claiming regeneration for yourself and excluding others that are just like you.

No, GOD made him special by regenerating him.
He's not the one "excluding others".
GOD is.
And you seem to think you have some "entitlement" to salvation.

Those of us who are saved know that we weren't "entitled" to it, and that God gifted salvation to us even though were not deserving of it.

You're presenting a scenario contrary to fact. Seeking God is not negative. The fool has said in his heart there is no God. Those that seek God are not fools.

First of all, nobody said that seeking God is negative.
Secondly, you are rippinng the Psalm out of context. It says that God looked upon ALL THE EARTH, and found NO ONE who sought God.

The Calvinist position has always been that those seek.... FIND....

Mat 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
Mat 7:8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

And you think that's speaking of unregenerated unbelievers?!

The Calvinist have always trumpeted. There are NONE that seek after God.

100% Biblical.
 

praise_yeshua

Well-known member
No, GOD made him special by regenerating him.
He's not the one "excluding others".
GOD is.

Every cult blames God for everything they believe. This is your belief. God has nothing to do with it.

And you seem to think you have some "entitlement" to salvation.

No. I'm saying every single human being can avail themselves of Salvation by faith. You're the one making yourself "entitled" to salvation. You're just blaming God for your own position. I know better. I know what the Scriptures teach.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Every cult blames God for everything they believe. This is your belief. God has nothing to do with it.

God is certainly in control over everything.
If you want to use the word, "blame", that's on you.

No. I'm saying every single human being can avail themselves of Salvation by faith.

And what "[you're] sayinng" is completely unBiblical.

You're the one making yourself "entitled" to salvation.

Not at all.

You're just blaming God for your own position.

Nope.
I only blame myself for my own sins.

I know better. I know what the Scriptures teach.

No, you don't.
 

Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
No. Not american idols.... :)

If man does not seek God, then explain all the false gods that are in this world?
Simple. EVERYBODY (including "Atheists", and "Agnostics") KNOWS that there is a God. And SO humans who don't personally know THE GOD, create their own definitions of "god" according to their own wisdom. Essentially a GOD is anything that you worship (put your trust in to make you feel better). Cigarettes were one of my gods that I worshiped intensely. Drugs, intoxicating substances, Power, Cars, MONEY, any number of things. If Humans don't personally know the REAL GOD, they'll simply construct their own, according to their own specifications (Romans 1).
 

praise_yeshua

Well-known member
Simple. EVERYBODY (including "Atheists", and "Agnostics") KNOWS that there is a God. And SO humans who don't personally know THE GOD, create their own definitions of "god" according to their own wisdom. Essentially a GOD is anything that you worship (put your trust in to make you feel better). Cigarettes were one of my gods that I worshiped intensely. Drugs, intoxicating substances, Power, Cars, MONEY, any number of things. If Humans don't personally know the REAL GOD, they'll simply construct their own, according to their own specifications (Romans 1).

No one has danced around a Cigarette and chanted "holy".........

It is ridiculous to say that Atheists know there is a god. Such are reprobate. The Scriptures do no use the word "fool" lightly.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
No one has danced around a Cigarette and chanted "holy".........

It is ridiculous to say that Atheists know there is a god. Such are reprobate. The Scriptures do no use the word "fool" lightly.

So at this point I can only conclude that you reject the entire Bible.
 

praise_yeshua

Well-known member
God is certainly in control over everything.
If you want to use the word, "blame", that's on you.

No. It is on you. It came from you.

God doesn't control everything. God sets limits and defines boundaries. You, like everyone else, have your OWN way.

Nope.
I only blame myself for my own sins.

Which makes you no different than anyone else. Yet you claim God has made you special. Typical.
 

Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
No one has danced around a Cigarette and chanted "holy".........
But a SMOKER worships them nonetheless. They are a god that must be served with singleminded dedication.
It is ridiculous to say that Atheists know there is a god.
The Bible says they do, and that settles it. They are without excuse, willfully putting HIM out of their consciousness (as best as they can).
Jer 17:9
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
 

Dizerner

Well-known member
But a SMOKER worships them nonetheless. They are a god that must be served with singleminded dedication.

The Bible says they do, and that settles it. They are without excuse, willfully putting HIM out of their consciousness (as best as they can).
Jer 17:9
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

I don't think it's that simple.

If the Bible says people's minds are blinded and Paul said he did things in ignorance, assuming that lost people know everything they need to is just going to make a person judgmental, hard-hearted and critical, instead of compassionate and gracious. Even as a Christian I've had times I felt unbelief so strongly that I wasn't sure what was happening or why.
 

Dizerner

Well-known member
No. Not american idols.... :)

If man does not seek God, then explain all the false gods that are in this world?

The point of saying man does not seek God is not to say that man does not have a feeling or desire for some higher power or the possibility of something greater out there than himself.

The point the Bible is bringing out is that all of our desires are impure and selfishly motivated; that is, no one seeks God purely for the reason or purpose of glorifying God.

With the gracious work of the Holy Spirit, a miraculous change of heart can happen to a person where they see the worth of God not with absolute purity, but with a true change of attitude.
 

praise_yeshua

Well-known member
But a SMOKER worships them nonetheless. They are a god that must be served with singleminded dedication.

There is nothing wrong with smoking. I don't smoke but there is nothing wrong with smoking. Just like there is nothing wrong with chewing gum that contains cancer causing materials. Moderation in all things.

The Bible says they do, and that settles it. They are without excuse, willfully putting HIM out of their consciousness (as best as they can).
Jer 17:9
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Yes. There are some that are willing ignorant. However, those verses describe a certain time period on this earth before the great flood. It is not indicative of all peoples throughout all times. Yes. I'm being picky in the application. We must. There are some that knew God and then deny Him to calm their conscious. However, there are some that have been given over to reprobate minds and they have a seared conscious that is nothing but a senseless scar. They have no sense whatsoever of Divinity.
 
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praise_yeshua

Well-known member
The point of saying man does not seek God is not to say that man does not have a feeling or desire for some higher power or the possibility of something greater out there than himself.

The point the Bible is bringing out is that all of our desires are impure and selfishly motivated; that is, no one seeks God purely for the reason or purpose of glorifying God.

You seem to be reasonable. Lets reason through the Scriptures.

The immediate descendents of Adam sought God. Seth was a righteous man. So were the descendents of Seth. Faith to faith. Therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith.

Some time after the death of Adam, this world began to be overrun by the descendents of Cain. To the point, the only a few were saved. This fact is the events that Paul uses in Romans to establish his Gospel message.

The righteous had gone out of the way. They had all become unprofitable.

The InCarnation of Jesus Christ changed this world forever. Our forefathers in the faith beheld His Glory. They passed their beliefs down through time through the Scriptures. We are their disciples. Faith to Faith.

With the gracious work of the Holy Spirit, a miraculous change of heart can happen to a person where they see the worth of God not with absolute purity, but with a true change of attitude.

It is Holy "Thing" to be directly convinced of sin by the Holy Spirit. In fact, this is the last step in repentance that brings us into fellowship with God. You're putting the cart before the horse. WAY before the horse. In fact, your cart is rolling down hill at breakneck speed without a horse at all.
 
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Dizerner

Well-known member
It is Holy "Thing" to be directly convinced of sin by the Holy Spirit. In fact, this is the last step in repentance that brings us into fellowship with God. You're putting the cart before the horse. WAY before the horse. In fact, your cart is rolling down hill at breakneck speed without a horse at all.

Grace is the horse that always comes first with my cart... always.

Adam and Eve sinned and spiritually died... grace took the first step back.

They were not inherently righteous producing inherently righteous works and just "forgot" how righteous mankind was after awhile—that's self-righteousness, a sin of pride.

And that's why all the bother about that lamb, and why God wasn't vegan, since the "fruit" of the "ground" was cursed.

I think our theologies may be as different as Abel and Cain's.
 
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praise_yeshua

Well-known member
Grace is the horse that always comes first with my cart... always.

Adam and Eve sinned and spiritually died... grace took the first step back.

God has been Gracious to everyone. Grace gives us sorry humans all good things that we have.

They were not inherently righteous producing inherently righteous works and just "forgot" how righteous mankind was after awhile—that's self-righteousness, a sin of pride.

Adam and Eve were promised a Savior from the seed of Eve. Adam and Eve believed God. Why wouldn't they?

Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

They knew what God told their enemy the Devil/Satan.


And that's why all the bother about that lamb, and why God wasn't vegan, since the "fruit" of the "ground" was cursed.

I think our theologies may be as different as Abel and Cain's.

I'm establishing the Lamb of God as the foundation of all theology. Our theology might be different. Tell me what is wrong about what I said?
 

Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
There is nothing wrong with smoking. I don't smoke but there is nothing wrong with smoking.
Other than it rapidly becomes a god that you HAVE TO SERVE. If you haven't smoked, you have no concept of the POWER it has over you, forcing you to serve it. Only in the power of God was I even able to get free.

Bottom line - ANYTHING that you MUST SERVE - is a god to you. And your worship is strongly drawn to them.
 

praise_yeshua

Well-known member
Other than it rapidly becomes a god that you HAVE TO SERVE. If you haven't smoked, you have no concept of the POWER it has over you, forcing you to serve it. Only in the power of God was I even able to get free.

Bottom line - ANYTHING that you MUST SERVE - is a god to you. And your worship is strongly drawn to them.

I've used tobacco every way imaginable. I know what it is like.

Again. Moderation. Which will prevent abuse. However, I still don't believe overusing anything makes it your "god".

Love something is a different story. Loving an idol to the point of worshipping that idol is BAD.
 

Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
I've used tobacco every way imaginable. I know what it is like.

Again. Moderation. Which will prevent abuse. However, I still don't believe overusing anything makes it your "god".

Love something is a different story. Loving an idol to the point of worshipping that idol is BAD.
"Overusing" has nothing to do with it. Addiction does. Addiction is definitely a form of "Worship", and the thing Worshipped constitutes a god and a breaking of the First Commandment. That Tobacco/Some Drugs are also physically harmful is incidental. "Moderation" only comes into play where ADDICTION isn't an issue. I have a beer , or some Wine (can't do the hard stuff because of my hiatus hernia, and the pain it causes and drug interactions with my cardiac stuff) now and again without issue. If I NEVER had a beer again it wouldn't matter to me.

The old saying is that: "God doesn't care too much what you HAVE, but He cares a LOT about WHAT HAS YOU".

I've never been an alcoholic, or a "recreational drug" addict, but Tobacco was my ABSOLUTE MASTER for over 20 years.
 

Carbon

Well-known member
"Overusing" has nothing to do with it. Addiction does. Addiction is definitely a form of "Worship", and the thing Worshipped constitutes a god and a breaking of the First Commandment. That Tobacco/Some Drugs are also physically harmful is incidental. "Moderation" only comes into play where ADDICTION isn't an issue. I have a beer , or some Wine (can't do the hard stuff because of my hiatus hernia, and the pain it causes and drug interactions with my cardiac stuff) now and again without issue. If I NEVER had a beer again it wouldn't matter to me.

The old saying is that: "God doesn't care too much what you HAVE, but He cares a LOT about WHAT HAS YOU".

I've never been an alcoholic, or a "recreational drug" addict, but Tobacco was my ABSOLUTE MASTER for over 20 years.
Did you reject God because you used tobacco?
Oh, you must have as a man cannot serve two masters.

Did you ever read your Bible with a cigarette in your mouth? Or whatever form of tobacco you were a slave to?
 

praise_yeshua

Well-known member
"Overusing" has nothing to do with it. Addiction does. Addiction is definitely a form of "Worship",

Nonsense. I'm addicted to food. Sometimes I eat just what I need. Sometimes I eat too much.

and the thing Worshipped constitutes a god and a breaking of the First Commandment.

There isn't a single Scripture that says this. Not one. That is you addition.

That Tobacco/Some Drugs are also physically harmful is incidental. "Moderation" only comes into play where ADDICTION isn't an issue. I have a beer , or some Wine (can't do the hard stuff because of my hiatus hernia, and the pain it causes and drug interactions with my cardiac stuff) now and again without issue. If I NEVER had a beer again it wouldn't matter to me.

Same here. Moderation in all things.

The old saying is that: "God doesn't care too much what you HAVE, but He cares a LOT about WHAT HAS YOU".

I've never been an alcoholic, or a "recreational drug" addict, but Tobacco was my ABSOLUTE MASTER for over 20 years.

Which is why you're hating on tobacco. It is nothing more than another "thing" that should be practiced in moderation.
 
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