Explicit Proof That Jesus Is God.

Yahweh will increase

Well-known member
Thus you acknowledge Jesus WAS an angel. Very GOOD!
Not an angel as in regards to an angelic being but only in regards to a human messenger and the prophets were also angels in this regard as well but neither where any of them angelic beings either.


Beside this, the messenger of the NT covenant, can hardly mean that Jesus was an OT angelic being, for again, Hebrews 1:5-6 very clearly tells us that God never called any of those angels of the OT his Son period and that is his word that should settle the issue also.


So what you have to do then, is decide whether you are going to hear and believe what the Bible says or whether instead you will believe what the Watch Tower says and they have no explicit scriptures to back up this idea that Jesus was Michael of the OT.


The fact that Michael was called a Prince of the People in Daniel is not explicit proof that he is the Prince of the NT, for they are two entirely different Testaments and Jesus wasn't born yet to be God's Prince for his people anyhow.


You people both Trinitarian and Unitarian or JW's or whatever, are going to have to get it through your heads, that you cannot just make things up to fit with what you want to believe the Bible to say, for you are going to be held responsible for it before God at the end of the age if you do.
 

Revelator

Member
No such thing as "angelic beings".
A spirit being or a human being is either a messenger of God or isn't.

No winged species or fat winged babies.....
 

YeshuaFan

Active member
LOL!

Hebrews 1:5 For unto which of the angels did God ever say,

“You are my Son;
today I have become your Father"?
Or again,

“I will be his Father,
and he will be my Son”?

6 And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says,

“Let all God’s angels worship him (Yahweh).”

Concerning the verse above in Hebrews 1:6, it wasn't Jesus who the writer of Hebrews was telling us was worshiped when God brought the Son into the world but rather Yahweh himself and here is the verse where this is stated and the only verse in either the OT or NT that speaks of this event also.


Luke 2:11 Today in the town of David a Savior has been born to you; he is the Messiah, the Lord. 12 This will be a sign to you: You will find a baby wrapped in cloths and lying in a manger.”

13 Suddenly a great company of the heavenly host appeared with the angel, praising God and saying,

14 “Glory to God in the highest heaven,
and on earth peace to those on whom his favor rests.”


The writer of Hebrews no doubt was showing by this, that because God's angels were told to worship God at the birth of Jesus, therefore the Son is greater than any of the angels period.


By the way, unless you can show from the NT scriptures where any of the inspired by the Holy Spirit writer said that Jesus was "The Angel of the Lord", then you are teaching a private interpretation of the scriptures and which makes you a false prophet, See 2 Peter 1:20-21 and 2 Peter 2:1-2.
Jesus is the eternal word of the father , and he is also Yahweh!
 

YeshuaFan

Active member
Not an angel as in regards to an angelic being but only in regards to a human messenger and the prophets were also angels in this regard as well but neither where any of them angelic beings either.


Beside this, the messenger of the NT covenant, can hardly mean that Jesus was an OT angelic being, for again, Hebrews 1:5-6 very clearly tells us that God never called any of those angels of the OT his Son period and that is his word that should settle the issue also.


So what you have to do then, is decide whether you are going to hear and believe what the Bible says or whether instead you will believe what the Watch Tower says and they have no explicit scriptures to back up this idea that Jesus was Michael of the OT.


The fact that Michael was called a Prince of the People in Daniel is not explicit proof that he is the Prince of the NT, for they are two entirely different Testaments and Jesus wasn't born yet to be God's Prince for his people anyhow.


You people both Trinitarian and Unitarian or JW's or whatever, are going to have to get it through your heads, that you cannot just make things up to fit with what you want to believe the Bible to say, for you are going to be held responsible for it before God at the end of the age if you do.
Angel of Yahweh in the OT was a messenger of God the Father, and he also was God Himself!
 

Yahweh will increase

Well-known member
Angel of Yahweh in the OT was a messenger of God the Father, and he also was God Himself!
Where did any Holy Spirit inspired writer of scripture actually tell us this explicitly?

For if you cannot provide one, then you are making that up and by so doing, you have fabricated what 2 Peter 1:20-21 has revealed to be a private interpretation of scripture.
 

Andreas

New Member
Jesus is the LORD OF GLORY according to 1 Corinthians 2:8. The Lord of Glory.

Lord of Glory can't refer to an angel. Lucifer tried, but it didn't work out well for him.
 

YeshuaFan

Active member
Where did any Holy Spirit inspired writer of scripture actually tell us this explicitly?

For if you cannot provide one, then you are making that up and by so doing, you have fabricated what 2 Peter 1:20-21 has revealed to be a private interpretation of scripture.
Paul stated that Christ was the Rock that followed Israel, who was Yahweh!
 

Yahweh will increase

Well-known member
Paul stated that Christ was the Rock that followed Israel, who was Yahweh!
That is isn't at all what Paul was saying by that however.

He was speaking of the types in the symbols used as being foreshadows of Christ coming.

Therefore Just like a man's shadow follows him, so the shadow of Christ followed them in the wilderness in those symbol and starting first in Egypt at the Passover and then with the rock from which came the water and which represented the living water that Jesus would give representing the out pouring of the Holy Spirit and then also the manna.


Then you have the serpent erected on the pole that represented Christ on the cross.


I can assure you, that if Jesus was there at that time, he wouldn't have been following them but instead he would have be leading them.


Paul was speaking in figurative terms and not literally meaning that Christ was following them around in the wilderness like you are falsely being taught.
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
That is isn't at all what Paul was saying by that however.

He was speaking of the types in the symbols used as being foreshadows of Christ coming.

Therefore Just like a man's shadow follows him, so the shadow of Christ followed them in the wilderness in those symbol and starting first in Egypt at the Passover and then with the rock from which came the water and which represented the living water that Jesus would give representing the out pouring of the Holy Spirit and then also the manna.


Then you have the serpent erected on the pole that represented Christ on the cross.


I can assure you, that if Jesus was there at that time, he wouldn't have been following them but instead he would have be leading them.


Paul was speaking in figurative terms and not literally meaning that Christ was following them around in the wilderness like you are falsely being taught.
Unbelievably WEAK response, trying to explain away Paul's CLEAR teaching.
 

YeshuaFan

Active member
That is isn't at all what Paul was saying by that however.

He was speaking of the types in the symbols used as being foreshadows of Christ coming.

Therefore Just like a man's shadow follows him, so the shadow of Christ followed them in the wilderness in those symbol and starting first in Egypt at the Passover and then with the rock from which came the water and which represented the living water that Jesus would give representing the out pouring of the Holy Spirit and then also the manna.


Then you have the serpent erected on the pole that represented Christ on the cross.


I can assure you, that if Jesus was there at that time, he wouldn't have been following them but instead he would have be leading them.


Paul was speaking in figurative terms and not literally meaning that Christ was following them around in the wilderness like you are falsely being taught.
paul was telling us that the Lord Jesus was indeed back there with Israel, first as the Angel of the Lord, and then as the fire and Rock!
 

Yahweh will increase

Well-known member
paul was telling us that the Lord Jesus was indeed back there with Israel, first as the Angel of the Lord, and then as the fire and Rock!
Where in your Bible can you find where any true inspired by the Holy Spirit writer of the NT ever told us that "The Angel of the Lord" was Jesus pre incarnate?

For if you cannot find one, either you or someone who is teaching you have made that up from their flesh and in making it up, they are promoting a private interpretation of the scriptures not given by the Holy Spirit unto any of the NT writers and just like 2 Peter 1:20-21 reveals that it is also.
 

YeshuaFan

Active member
Where in your Bible can you find where any true inspired by the Holy Spirit writer of the NT ever told us that "The Angel of the Lord" was Jesus pre incarnate?

For if you cannot find one, either you or someone who is teaching you have made that up from their flesh and in making it up, they are promoting a private interpretation of the scriptures not given by the Holy Spirit unto any of the NT writers and just like 2 Peter 1:20-21 reveals that it is also.
Jesus said that Abraham saw His day and was glad, and that Jesus is the great I Am!
 

Yahweh will increase

Well-known member
Jesus said that Abraham saw His day and was glad, and that Jesus is the great I Am!
Nope, for indeed Abraham saw Jesus day and which has to mean that he received a vision from God of Jesus coming to Israel.


Furthermore his using the word "day" alone refers a period of time and not eternity.

So after Jesus said "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day and saw it and was glad, the wicked Jews like usual only heard what they wanted to hear in his words in order to accuse him falsely and answered him "you are not even 50 years old yet and you say that you have seen Abraham" and Jesus never said any such thing.


Therefore because they twisted his words, he replied to them in a spiritual riddle and said unto them "Truly I say unto you before Abraham was I am" and knowing that again they would read into it what they wanted to mean just like you trins do also.

Acts 2:22 “Fellow Israelites, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know. 23 This man was handed over to you by God’s deliberate plan and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross. 24 But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him.


For Jesus was still speaking of the vision of God concerning the coming of Christ and which vision God had conceived in his mind = The Logos before the creation of the world and of which God allowed Abraham to get a glimpse of as per Jesus' words in verse 56 and which they twisted in order to accuse him falsely.

1 Peter 1:20 "(Jesus) who truly was foreknown (conceived and known of in God's mind the Logos) before the foundation of the world, but was in these last days manifested for you"





Therefore God as per Peters words in Acts 2:22-24 allowed these apostate rebellious Jews to have their delusion by which to fulfill their desire to have Jesus crucified, for God had determined to use them for that very purpose being they had become worthless clay in his hands for any other righteous use.
 

YeshuaFan

Active member
Nope, for indeed Abraham saw Jesus day and which has to mean that he received a vision from God of Jesus coming to Israel.


Furthermore his using the word "day" alone refers a period of time and not eternity.

So after Jesus said "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day and saw it and was glad, the wicked Jews like usual only heard what they wanted to hear in his words in order to accuse him falsely and answered him "you are not even 50 years old yet and you say that you have seen Abraham" and Jesus never said any such thing.


Therefore because they twisted his words, he replied to them in a spiritual riddle and said unto them "Truly I say unto you before Abraham was I am" and knowing that again they would read into it what they wanted to mean just like you trins do also.

Acts 2:22 “Fellow Israelites, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know. 23 This man was handed over to you by God’s deliberate plan and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross. 24 But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him.


For Jesus was still speaking of the vision of God concerning the coming of Christ and which vision God had conceived in his mind = The Logos before the creation of the world and of which God allowed Abraham to get a glimpse of as per Jesus' words in verse 56 and which they twisted in order to accuse him falsely.

1 Peter 1:20 "(Jesus) who truly was foreknown (conceived and known of in God's mind the Logos) before the foundation of the world, but was in these last days manifested for you"





Therefore God as per Peters words in Acts 2:22-24 allowed these apostate rebellious Jews to have their delusion by which to fulfill their desire to have Jesus crucified, for God had determined to use them for that very purpose being they had become worthless clay in his hands for any other righteous use.
Jesus was claiming to be the God of the OT, and the Jews picked that up as tried to kill him off next!
 

Yahweh will increase

Well-known member
Jesus was claiming to be the God of the OT, and the Jews picked that up as tried to kill him off next!
So you are going to take what the apostate reprobate Jews believed about Jesus as the truth huh or is it that you are instead believing what other men told you about what Jesus meant instead of seeking and asking and waiting upon God to reveal it to you personally instead?

You better get with the seeking and the asking and the waiting upon God for the answer while getting your fleshy thinking about it out of the way so he can reveal the truth unto you, because you are not getting it as it is right now!


For if you don't, I will be there to observe where that takes you when you stand before God during the Great White Throne Judgment and incidentally Paul in Romans 6:2-3 tells me that I am going to take part as a judge in that Judgment also.

1 Corinthians 6: 2 Or do you not know that the Lord’s people will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? 3 Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life!
 

OldShepherd

Active member
* * * So you are going to take what the apostate reprobate Jews believed about Jesus as the truth huh or is it that you are instead believing what other men told you about what Jesus meant instead of seeking and asking and waiting upon God to reveal it to you personally instead? * * *
Looks like that puffed up arrogance has failed you as usual. It is not about knowing and agreeing with what the Jews believed about Jesus but understanding what they believed and why they acted.
John agreed that Jesus by saying God was His father He was making Himself equal with God. John 5:18
 

YeshuaFan

Active member
Looks like that puffed up arrogance has failed you as usual. It is not about knowing and agreeing with what the Jews believed about Jesus but understanding what they believed and why they acted.
John agreed that Jesus by saying God was His father He was making Himself equal with God. John 5:18
Interesting that we are 2000 years remived form those events, and yet still think that we know better then the Jews who heard Jesus what he meant!
 

OldShepherd

Active member
Interesting that we are 2000 years remived form those events, and yet still think that we know better then the Jews who heard Jesus what he meant!
Yeah we see that a lot from folks who don't need the written scriptures they got this "spiritual enlightenment' and get their beliefs straight from the throne.
 
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