Faith Alone

Mesenja

Well-known member
Where does that say anything about "losing salvation"?
"receiving knowledge" isn't "becoming saved".

Again, "knowledge" is not salvation.

So where do you see "losing salvation" there?

“And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent” John 17:3
 

Mesenja

Well-known member
Faith alone to me means that I am saved by Grace through faith alone. I am made perfect forever by faith that Christ's one sacrifice atones for all my sins while I am being made Holy by God's Spirit leading me toward perfect obedience.( Hebrews 10:14)

It is faith alone but not dead faith alone. It is a living faith that grasps Grace and results in major changes.

Faith is still faith. Whether it is dead or not is irrelevant. A corpse, although it is obviously not alive, is still considered to be a body. In the same way faith without works is still faith.
 

Aaron32

Well-known member

Give your definition of what the term faith alone means. And since this term, doesn’t stand alone in a vacuum tell us what justification means.​
Being saved by the merits of Christ through his atonement, and receiving that merit by submission to His will.
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
You are right, the problem at Matt 7:22-23--these believe they have salvation and are told they have salvation by the blind guides who assured them--You are saved. Many of religions claiming to be christian tell the flocks --you are saved--Like Joel Osteen says--You say 3 lines of prayer with me and you are saved--its pure lie. But the blind who want their ears tickled believe men like that. Not a single mortal on earth knows if another is saved. They have no right assuring them they are. Only blind guides do--then ask for a tithe.
Salvation is available to everyone. You said Not a single mortal on earth knows if another is saved, then the opposite must also be true Not a single mortal on earth knows if another will not be saved...
 

Newbirth

Well-known member

Faith is still faith. Whether it is dead or not is irrelevant. A corpse, although it is obviously not alive, is still considered to be a body. In the same way faith without works is still faith.
Yes, but dead, meaning it is ineffective. So faith alone is ineffective.
 

Newbirth

Well-known member

Give your definition of what the term faith alone means. And since this term, doesn’t stand alone in a vacuum tell us what justification means.​
The only time faith alone is mentioned in the scriptures it is in a negative form.
James 2:17
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
that's not quite what the verse says..but, what if you do just a little bit out of Jesus' will...do you then lose your salvation?
what do you mean by... just a little bit out of Jesus' will ?... Do you know of any unrighteousness that is not sin?
1 John 5:17
All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
 

Merton

Active member
Salvation starts off by being regenerated by God, with God taking out our old heart of stone, and replacing it with a God-loving heart of flesh. Salvation is not simply "obeying commandments", nor is it nothing but a "decision" someone makes. It is God quickening us to a new life in Christ.
I think this is excellent. Salvation is God quickening us to new life in Christ, starting off with replacing our heart of stone with a God-loving heart of flesh.

I wonder if you would unfold it in this way:
The quickening with new life is the salvation itself. Our being saved from a condition of death (spiritual death).
This life changes your very being, as for example changing your heart from being of stone to a compassionate and loving heart
We can see this reflected in Romans 5:5: "God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us"
We can call this change in your being as a rebirth - regenerated
This new life is then responsible for many actions that are new to us: to believe with faith, to have hope, to do loving deeds.
We can call all these actions as being fruits of the Spirit.
Faith, hope and love are all fruits of the life that God has poured into us.
A dead tree produces no fruit. No faith, no hope, no loving deeds. But a living tree produces all three fruits.
God took a dead tree and gave it life, out of sheer love for the tree, which was dead, and had no fruit to show for itself, with nothing to make it worthy of the gift of this life.
God, as the vinekeeper, will at some point decide which trees will remain in His orchard.
God will do so by a common standard, without favoritism for rich or poor or for Jew or Gentile nation status.
The common standard: God will choose the trees that are alive, and remove the ones which are dead.

So you are saved from spiritual death by the life God quickens you with...you are saved from the world and the power of evil by the same life that God has quickened you and continues to quicken you with...and you are saved on the last day from the 'wrath of God' by the same life which God has placed within you.
In short, you are saved by God's grace - by the life He gives you, out of sheer unconditional love for you.

Would you agree with these things?
(I think you agree with the Reformation? And I'm speaking from the Catholic tradition)
 
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Newbirth

Well-known member
If a circle has corners, is it still a circle, and if so, how?
Yes...if it has corners and it is called a circle then it is a circle. If a circle has no corners then it is not a circle. A circle with a square in it has corners.
Saved Christians don't "willfully reject a known commandment".
The classification of saved used without a proper explanation leads to confusion. While we are alive we are being saved. Those who endure until the end of their life shall be saved.
1 Peter 1:9
Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
Salvation starts off by being regenerated by God, with God taking out our old heart of stone, and replacing it with a God-loving heart of flesh. Salvation is not simply "obeying commandments", nor is it nothing but a "decision" someone makes. It is God quickening us to a new life in Christ.
The issue is not the beginning or the middle it is the end.
Matthew 10:22
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
Yes, they are still saved.
only if they confess and repent of their sin.
Why would they not be saved?
Because there is no sin in Christ. Are you saying a person is saved outside of Christ or are you saying there is sin in Christ?
You, you, you wilfully reject a known commandment everyday. Everyday!!!
If you confess and ask God for forgiveness you will be forgiven. If you don't you won't be forgiven.
1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If so...how? ALL of my sins have been imputed to Christ Jesus...nailed to the cross with Jesus. All sins, past, present and future. AND, Jesus' righteousness has be imputed to me.
Please post the passage that says exactly that.
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
If you become a serial killer you probably were not saved to begin with.
Here it says a partaker of the HS can fall away
Heb 6
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
 

Merton

Active member
With a nick like "Merton", I never would have guessed.
You don't live on a seven storey mountain, do you?
Loved your cameo in the movie, "Quiz Show", btw.
I took his name as my nom de plume because I liked some of the things he wrote, in Seeds of Contemplation.
But feel free to answer my post. I'd be very interested in your analysis of it from your perspective.
 
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