Aaron32
Well-known member
So a "saved" person never sins?
Faith Alone
- Thread starter Aaron32
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eternomade
Well-known member
No. Sinners sin, that's what they do. God justified the ungodly. Justified sinners sin just like everyone else, but they are justified. Christ imputed His righteousness to His people and their sin to Him. Imputation does not intrinsically change someone, otherwise I would be intrinsically righteous, and Jesus sinful.
In a nutshell, it allows the saved to sin with impunity. For those who detest their sin, it is anything but good news.
What if we were to suppose the gospel writer had Jesus cry from the cross: "Father forgive them for they know exactly what they're doing" How would that fit in with this idea of sinning with impunity? Wouldn't it fit in perfectly?
When Christ points out that those who justify their sin are "an abomination", how does that fit in with sinning with impunity?.
If only "the doers of the law are justified", how does that fit in with sinning with impunity?
I've been asking these questions for decades now, and I've never had anyone come up with anything even remotely coherent. They've sadly become rhetorical questions.
eternomade
Well-known member
I believe that all Christians detest their sin. Paul says he "is" the chief of sinners, not "was".
I do see a distinction between doers of the law and doers of the word, do you?
I believe the just live by faith, which would be living by the gospel.
If the new covenant is conditional based upon what the sinner does(faith, repentance, works) or does not do, what difference is there between the old and new covenant?
For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
Hebrews 8:7 KJV
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guest1
Guest
Ephesians tells us what saving faith produces in the believer and its purpose.
Ephesians 2:8-10
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
It is the claim of one who is ready to put that behind them. Christ does not save sinners in order that they may continue to sin, but that they be saved from sin. If the new testament cannot prevent one from sinning, then it is no better than the old.
Yes. the former can be classified as legalists, i.e. those who keep the law to justify themselves. They see the law as a means of justification. They are clearly not justified. However, this doesn't negate the fact that only those who do keep the law can be justified. In other words, there are also those who do not keep the law in order to be justified. They keep the law because they are a new creation created for righteous works. Do you see the difference?
And which aspects of the gospel are you referring to with reference to living by faith? Paul also points out that those who keep God's law will live in them.
The new covenant isn't about what sinners do, but what the righteous do. There are no sinners under the New Covenant. See Jer. 31:31-34;Ezekiel 11:19;36:25-27; Hebrews 8:9,10;9:15;10:26
Christ comes to save or redeem those who sinned under the first testament, but he does not save those under the new testament. He reigns over the righteous under the New Testament.
And therefore the second must be faultless. There can be no room for fault, sin, trespasses etc.
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guest1
Guest
Well said !
Matthew 7:18
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
You will know them by their fruits !
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eternomade
Well-known member
I agree. Do you believe the second covenant, the new covenant is between mankind and God? I don't. I see it between God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ.
This makes sense, especially when people point out that God only sees his son. Ultimately, there is only Christ.
Why is "alone" in parentheses in the Eph 2:8 quote?
Where does scripture say... by faith alone?
1Thess521
Well-known member
It is a summary statement of Romans 3 and 4:
feel free to read it and let us know what you think Paul wants us to know about justification, works, and faith:
we will be waiting for your summary
thanks
"Through faith alone" is obviously not a complete exposition of doctrine and should never be seen as such; because the word "faith" is susceptible to all manner of perversion. As Christ prophesied, some will put Christians to death in the name of faith. Faith alone is only an answer to those who disparage faith, and prioritize the law and / or legalism, which perhaps epitomizes the Isamic heresy and certain Jewish and pseudo-Christian sects.
Through the law we become conscious of sin and our need for grace. Rom 3:20. Therefore if one doesn't know the law, faith will be weak. Knowledge is essential for faith.
A key doctrine is also our need to keep the faith, in order to reign in life through Jesus Christ: "those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness [by faith] will [/must] reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!" Rom 5:20
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None of that says faith alone
1Thess521
Well-known member
In Romans 3 and 4 ;what do you think Paul wants us to know about justification, works, and faith?
That faith is important but as you already know James says something specifically about faith
1Thess521
Well-known member
we all know what James said:
In Romans 3 and 4 ;what do you think Paul wants us to know about justification, works, and faith?
What does James say?
1Thess521
Well-known member
answer my question first:
In Romans 3 and 4; what do you think Paul wants us to know about justification, works, and faith?