I answered this. What does James say?
Faith Alone
- Thread starter Aaron32
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I answered this. What does James say?
1Thess521
Well-known member
where did you answer it?
Go look. I'm not your secretary
1Thess521
Well-known member
so you think a summary of Romans 3 and 4 is "faith is important:"
Let me help you out: the correct summary is of Romans 3 and 4 is Romans 5:1
"Therefore, since we have been justified through faith,"
Let me help you out, it doesn't actually say faith alone does it?
1Thess521
Well-known member
then please please tell us
what must we do apart from faith to be justified?
Romans 3:28 For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law
Eph 2: 8-9 For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast.
Titus 3:5 He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,
It can't be works of the law: and it can't be works done in in righteousness,
what else is there?
What does James tell us? You conveniently avoid that. That's why talking to you people about this becomes fruitless you just ignore the stuff you don't like.
1Thess521
Well-known member
James tell us we are vindicated to our neighbors by our works:
James tell us a dead faith does not save
and a useless faith does not save
and the faith of demons does not save
your turn:
If it can't be works of the law: and it can't be works done in in righteousness,
what else is there?
A dead faith had no works. You people preach either/or theology which isn't biblical.
1Thess521
Well-known member
so do you think God gives the gift of a dead faith?
Still waiting
If it can't be works of the law: and it can't be works done in in righteousness,
what else is there?
No we make it dead.
Hope you brought a book to read.
What "works" was James referring to?
1Thess521
Well-known member
So WHEN are we justified?
Here a book for you:
now if you want to justify your faith to others lets see what a Catholic author has to say:
You Can Understand The Bible: A Practical And Illuminating Guide To Each Book In The Bible
By Peter Kreeft
Pages 291-292
You Can Understand The Bible: A Practical And Illuminating Guide To Each Book In The Bible: Kreeft, Peter: 9781586170455: Amazon.com: Books
You Can Understand The Bible: A Practical And Illuminating Guide To Each Book In The Bible [Kreeft, Peter] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. You Can Understand The Bible: A Practical And Illuminating Guide To Each Book In The Biblewww.amazon.com
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Actually, James' point is very clear and simple, it is not a contrast between faith and works but between a real faith, a faith that works, and a fake faith, one that does not. "Show me your faith apart from your works, and by my works will show you my faith."
We do not see a living plant's roots, only its fruits. Others cannot see your faith, for it is invisible.
They can see only your actions, which show your faith as a tulip flower shows you that a tulip bulb has taken root The apparent contradiction between James, who says that we, like Abraham, are justified by works (2: 21), and Paul, who says that we, like Abraham, are justified by faith (Rom 4), is explained by looking at the context.
Paul's context is the relationship between the believer and God, while James' context is the relationship between the believer and his neighbor.
God sees your faith; your neighbor sees your works. Faith justifies us before God; works justify us before our neighbors.
There is no need to be justified before my neighbors. Theyre irrelevant in that regard.
1Thess521
Well-known member
"Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds"
James 2 is about VINDICATION not being decreed righteous by God
Cyril of Alexandria, a native Greek speaker, on the issue of the meaning of the term edikaiōthē (translated “justified” in Ancient Christian Commentary on the Scripture, New Testament VI), clearly explains that he believes that it refers to vindication, and not literal justification:
Clement, who writes at a time contemporaneous enough with James’ to have a thorough understanding of edikaiōthē and the doctrine of the Apostles that is surrounding it. Citing James 2:23, and likely having the whole section in mind when exegeting Hebrews 11, he writes that Abraham proved his faithfulness in the performance faithful acts:
Not only does Clement endorse the view that Abraham was vindicated by his sacrifice of Isaac, as he was found faithful in our sight because of it, he linguistically uses the term “justified” to mean “vindicated” elsewhere in the letter.
the Greek language had no other word that meant vindication in the present tense
Cyprian of Carthage writes:
“men are tried by God for this purpose, that they may be proved.”
A later Latin writer, Hilary of Poitiers,
Abraham had proved, by the sacrifice of his son,
James 2:21: Works vindicate (edikaiōthē) our faith before all
What does James mean that Abraham was justified by works? Can we be justified multiple times, once by faith and other times by works? Is James contradicting Paul? We answer these questions in the f…
orthodoxchristiantheology.com
1Thess521
Well-known member
WHEN are we justified (declare righteous by God)?
Arch Stanton
Well-known member
Clement of Rome
Let us therefore join with those to whom grace is given by God. Let us clothe ourselves in concord, being humble and self- controlled, keeping ourselves far from all backbiting and slander, being justified by works and not by words. . . . Why was our Father Abraham blessed? Was it not because of his deeds of justice and truth, wrought in faith? . . . So we, having been called through his will in Christ Jesus, were not justified through ourselves or through our own wisdom or understanding or piety or works which we wrought in holiness of heart, but through faith, whereby the almighty God justified all men. (Letter to the Corinthians 30:3, 31:2, 32:3-4 [A.D. 95]).
1Thess521
Well-known member
please tell us!!
What works does God want me to do in order to be justified?
Romans 3:28 For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law
Eph 2: 8-9 For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast.
Titus 3:5 He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,
If it can't be works of the law: and it can't be works done in in righteousness,
what else is there?
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Arch Stanton
Well-known member
Cyprian
You, then, who are rich and wealthy, buy for yourself from Christ gold purified in fire, for with your filth, as if burned away in the fire; you can be like pure gold, if you are cleansed by almsgiving and by works of justice. Buy yourself a white garment so that, although you had been naked like Adam and were formerly frightful and deformed, you may be clothed in the white garment of Christ. You who are a matron rich and wealthy, anoint not your eyes with the antimony of the devil, but with the salve of Christ, so that you may at last come to see God, when you have merited before God both by your works and by your manner of living (Works and Almsgiving 14 [A.D. 252]).
Arch Stanton
Well-known member
Here is Jerome....
Jerome
But since in the Law no one is justified before God, it is evident that the just man lives by faith.' It should be noted that he does not say that a man, a person, lives by faith, lest it be thought that he is condemning good works. Rather, he says the 'just' man lives by faith. He implies thereby that whoever would be faithful and would conduct his life according to the faith can in no other way arrive at the faith or live in it except first he be a just man of pure life, coming up to the faith by certain degrees (Commentaries on Galatians 2:3:11 [A.D. 386]).