Faith Alone
- Thread starter Aaron32
- Start date
Deuteronomy
Active member
Yes, that is what I experienced/felt in that moment, that, and a nearly indescribable sense of joy and peace that I had never known or experienced before (though the knowledge and assurance that I was forgiven of all my sins actually came from the inner witness of the Holy Spirit).
~Deuteronomy
Acts 22:16
16 And now why tarriest thou? Arise and be baptized and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.’
Acts 2:38
38 Then Peter said unto them, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Last edited:
Is faith without works still faith just as a body without the spirit is still a body?
James 2:26
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Deuteronomy
Active member
Hello again Mesenja, I apologize for taking so long to reply to you (life has been getting in my way a lot here of late, but that's the way it is sometimes, as I know you know).
That said, I'm not quite sure how to reply to your last post (and/or two of your earlier posts) because all you posted in reply to what I said were a couple of Scripture verses. While there is nothing wrong with doing that, I don't know how to reply to you because I don't understand what you are trying to tell me (or ask me?).
I suppose I could take a stab at it and do my best to guess at your meaning, but that seems like it may end up being nothing more than a waste of time for us both. So please, when you post a verse or a passage, or a Christian quote, in response to something that I've said, please tell me, even briefly, what your point or your question is so that I can reply to your meaning directly, rather than replying to my best guess about what your question or point may be.
You needn't go back to your earlier posts (if you don't want to), but if you could fill in the blanks (so to speak) for me by making a point or asking me a question (in your post #703 above), I will reply to you as quickly as possible.
Thank you
~Deuteronomy
Hello again Mesenja, I apologize for taking so long to reply to you (life has been getting in my way a lot here of late, but that's the way it is sometimes, as I know you know).
That said, I'm not quite sure how to reply to your last post (and/or two of your earlier posts) because all you posted in reply to what I said were a couple of Scripture verses. While there is nothing wrong with doing that, I don't know how to reply to you because I don't understand what you are trying to tell me (or ask me?).
I suppose I could take a stab at it and do my best to guess at your meaning, but that seems like it may end up being nothing more than a waste of time for us both. So please, when you post a verse or a passage, or a Christian quote, in response to something that I've said, please tell me, even briefly, what your point or your question is so that I can reply to your meaning directly, rather than replying to my best guess about what your question or point may be.
You needn't go back to your earlier posts (if you don't want to), but if you could fill in the blanks (so to speak) for me by making a point or asking me a question (in your post #703 above), I will reply to you as quickly as possible.
Thank you
“Baptism is said to be “for the remission of sins” and to “wash your sins away” (Acts 2:38; 22:16). Is baptism, therefore a condition of salvation. Yes or no?
It's intriguing to see how many people believe this actually means that they can continue to sin with impunity. This is what passes for the good news these days. It's pathetic.
This is a fundamental feature of the Mosaic law. If one knows what they're doing is sinful, and does it anyways, the remedy for intentionally or knowingly sinning was NEVER sacrifice, but instead "teshuva" or repentance and restitution. This is how Christ begins his ministry, e.g. "Repent...etc." His ministry ends with those who sin unintentionally or unknowingly with his words on the cross: "Father forgive them for they know NOT what they do." That was always the remedy for unintentional or unknown sins.
The idea being conveyed is that those who sin knowingly have no recourse to Christ's sacrifice and no amount of faith or works can save them from their own desperately wicked hearts. The good news is that they can be saved in, with, and through the faith of Christ implanted in them which liberates them from sin.
Runningman
Well-known member
It applies in the New Covenant as well.
Hebrews 10
29How much more severely do you think one deserves to be punished who has trampled on the Son of God, profaned the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and insulted the Spirit of grace?
God's grace and Christ's sacrifice are accessed through a general overall effort toward being righteous regardless of whether or not someone sins 7 times a day, 70, or 700. Forgiveness is one step away for the truly repentant.
When Jesus said those words, did Jesus' Father forgive them for doing what they did though?
Acts 2
36Therefore let all Israel know with certainty that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ!”
37When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and asked Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?”
38Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Romans 2
7To those who by perseverance in doing good seek glory, honor, and immortality, He will give eternal life. 8But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow wickedness, there will be wrath and anger.
"All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men; but the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit shall not be forgiven unto men". Matthew 12:31
18 This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before concerning thee, that thou by them mightest wage a good warfare,19 holding faith and a good conscience which some, having put aside, have suffered shipwreck concerning faith. 20 Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.1 Timothy 1:18-20
18 This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before concerning thee, that thou by them mightest wage a good warfare,19 holding faith and a good conscience which some, having put aside, have suffered shipwreck concerning faith. 20 Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.1 Timothy 1:18-20
Deuteronomy
Active member
Hello again Mesenja, thank you for explaining that to me
Holy Spirit baptism is certainly a condition of salvation, but the baptism that 'we' perform (water baptism) is a matter of obedience on our parts (perhaps the first and foremost matter or good work that we are called to do as believers) once we have been quickened/made alive/caused us to be born again, declared just & saved by God, that is, IOW, once we have been made us into wholly new creatures in Christ as His workmanship.
Water baptism is an outward sign or demonstration of the inward transformation that has (already) taken place in a believer's heart (a transformation that occurred at the very moment that they first received and trusted Jesus Christ as their Savior and Lord, by faith .. e.g. John 5:24 .. the moment that they came into possession of eternal life).
So, water baptism is an important work that a true believer does (again, as an act of obedience). It is meant to be part of his/her ~public~ confession of faith in the Lord Jesus Christ (something which was particularly difficult AND particularly important for Jews in the 1st Century to do). This means that water baptism is part of the fruit that results from salvation, NOT a condition or cause of salvation.
We are saved by God, by what 'He' did/does for us, not by anything that 'we' do (as even the saving faith that we exercise when we choose to believe is a "gift" from God) .. e.g. Ephesians 2:8-10.
God bless you as you seek to find Him and know Him!!
~Deuteronomy
p.s. - this is MUCH more to discuss, but I'm afraid that this is going have to be it for now. I will return (Dv). Here is a bit more from the Apostle Paul to consider (words which are actually quite similar to the ones that I posited earlier in this post from the Lord Jesus .. John 5:24, yes).
Romans 10
9 If you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
10 for with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
Last edited:
John 3:5-6
5 Jesus answered, “Verily, verily I say unto thee, unless a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Acts 2:38-41
38 Then Peter said unto them, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all who are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.”
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, “Save yourselves from this untoward generation.”
41 Then those who gladly received his words were baptized, and that same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
Romans 6:3-4
3 Know ye not that as many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into His death?
4 Therefore we are buried with Him by baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Titus 3:5
5 He saved us not by works of righteousness which we had done, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration, and by the renewing of the Holy Ghost,
1 Corinthians 6:11
11 And such were some of you. But ye are washed, ye are sanctified, ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
1 Peter 3:21
21 “…baptism, doth also now save us…”
Ephesians 2:10
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath beforehand ordained, that we should walk in them.
Last edited:
The Hebrew word חַטָּאָת (chatta’ath) means both “sin” and “sin offering.” Therefore Christ didn’t become sin for us rather, he became our sin offering.
Runningman
Well-known member
Water baptism is essential, not that getting in water somehow results in salvation, but it's an act of faith in obedience; a simple first step that anyone should be able to find a way to do because water is everywhere. Therefore, faith and obedience to God are required. By faith, people do many things to obey God, including Jesus himself, who received the Holy Spirit immediately upon coming up out of the water.
Matthew 3
13At that time Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to be baptized by John. 14But John tried to prevent Him, saying, “I need to be baptized by You, and do You come to me?”
15“Let it be so now,” Jesus replied. “It is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness in this way.” Then John permitted Him.
16As soon as Jesus was baptized, He went up out of the water. Suddenly the heavens were opened, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and resting on Him. 17And a voice from heaven said, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased!”
Matthew 3
13At that time Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to be baptized by John. 14But John tried to prevent Him, saying, “I need to be baptized by You, and do You come to me?”
15“Let it be so now,” Jesus replied. “It is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness in this way.” Then John permitted Him.
16As soon as Jesus was baptized, He went up out of the water. Suddenly the heavens were opened, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and resting on Him. 17And a voice from heaven said, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased!”
Romans 6:3-7
3 Know ye not that as many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we are buried with Him by baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of His death, so we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,
6 knowing this: that our old man is crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be destroyed,that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
1 Corinthians 6:11
11 And such were some of you. But ye are washed, ye are sanctified, ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
Colossians 2:11-12
11 and in whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ. 12 Ye are buried with Him in baptism, wherein ye also are risen with Him through the faith wrought by the operation of God, who hath raised Him from the dead.
1 John 5:11-12
11 And this is the record: that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He that hath the Son hath life, and he that hath not the Son hath not life.
Of course it does.
Your "effort" denotes a works-based salvation.
Most definitely! There are two reasons why this must be the case: 1) It is God's will to forgive those who sin unknowingly or unintentionally. We know it is God's will because this is the will of God as revealed to Moses and that very same law was what Jesus came to "magnify".
2.) Jesus' perfect sacrifice is the only sacrifice that can cover those sins.
This is not the response of the unforgiven or damned.
Our relationship to God is synergistic.
'We are fellow-workers (synergoi) with God' 1Corinthians 3:9
Grace_Accepted
Active member
If they willfully reject a Command from our Lord, they do not know him and He does not know them. But salvation can still happen for them by faith.
Grace_Accepted
Active member
Yes, it is synergistic but under the canopy of our salvation in Christ. We are made perfect by His one sacrifice while still being made Holy.
Hebrews 10:26
26 For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,