Faith Alone

Ok now show us how an unsaved person gets to recognize his mercy and saved by doing nothing.
Janice Bower believes in the doctrine of monergism. She also believes in the doctrine of irresistible grace.

Monergism is the view within Christian theology which holds that God works through the Holy Spirit to bring about the salvation of an individual through spiritual regeneration,regardless of the individual's cooperation. Monergism-Wikipedia

Irresistible grace (also called effectual grace effectual calling,or efficacious grace) is a doctrine in Christian theology particularly associated with Calvinism,which teaches that the saving grace of God is effectually applied to those whom he has determined to save (the elect) and,in God's timing,overcomes their resistance to obeying the call of the gospel,bringing them to faith in Christ. Irresistible Grace-Wikipedia
 
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Does this apply to all men or only to some men? If it applies to all men please explain why all men are not debt free and saved?
When I said His Son paid our debt, why would a Christian's debt apply to a Buddhist or Muslim? Jesus didn't save them.
 
When I said His Son paid our debt why would a Christian's debt apply to a Buddhist or Muslim?
All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. This includes Muslims and Buddhists. The Atonement of Christ is offered to everyone.
Jesus didn't save them.
The terms “saved” and “salvation” have various meanings. As used in Romans 10:9–10, the words “saved” and “salvation” signify a covenant relationship with Jesus Christ. Through this covenant relationship, followers of Christ are assured salvation from the eternal consequences of sin if they are obedient. “Salvation” and “saved” are also used in the scriptures in other contexts with several different meanings. Doctrinal Study Salvation
 
The argument I am addressing is does God regenerate people,making them spiritually alive,before they can have faith in the Saviour.

There are also if/then conditional statements in the Bible. I was pointing this out to emphasize the fact that our salvation is both conditional and synergistic.
Yet the passages in your posts did not address those issues
 
So God is giving the unsaved hearing to be saved, please tell us who God is not giving hearing so they will not be saved.
You claim that God is not giving hearing so that certain people will not be saved. He is not showing mercy to wicked men. Imagine that!
God doesn't make men wicked nor does He ever tell them to sin.

Jude 1
God’s Judgment on the Ungodly

3 Beloved, although I made every effort to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt it necessary to write and urge you to contend earnestly for the faith entrusted once for all to the saints. 4 For certain men have crept in among you unnoticed—ungodly ones who were designated long ago for condemnation. They turn the grace of our God into a license for immorality, and they deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

5 Although you are fully aware of this, I want to remind you that after Jesus had delivered His people out of the land of Egypt, He destroyed those who did not believe. 6 And the angels who did not stay within their own domain but abandoned their proper dwelling—these He has kept in eternal chains under darkness, bound for judgment on that great day. 7 In like manner, Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, who indulged in sexual immorality and pursued strange flesh, are on display as an example of those who sustain the punishment of eternal fire.

Mercy is not deserved and God isn't obligated to bestow it.

1 Timothy 1:12-16
12 I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has given me strength, that he considered me trustworthy, appointing me to his service. 13 Even though I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man, I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief. 14 The grace of our Lord was poured out on me abundantly, along with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus.
15 Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am the worst. 16 But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life.
 
When I said His Son paid our debt, why would a Christian's debt apply to a Buddhist or Muslim? Jesus didn't save them.
You are not making any sense...When did His son pay your debt? Was it before you became a so-called christian or after? You seem to be saying that one must be a christian before the debt is paid. And that Jesus did not die for all men.
Acts 17
22 Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious.
23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, To The Unknown God. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.
24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
 
All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. This includes Muslims and Buddhists. The Atonement of Christ is offered to everyone.
Mormons teach that the atonement is an opportunity. If it's an opportunity that would imply that everyone knows about it and that they understand it. My relatives didn't understand it and Mormon missionaries didn't explain the Mormon atonement to me or my family members that they baptized.


The terms “saved” and “salvation” have various meanings. As used in Romans 10:9–10, the words “saved” and “salvation” signify a covenant relationship with Jesus Christ. Through this covenant relationship, followers of Christ are assured salvation from the eternal consequences of sin if they are obedient. “Salvation” and “saved” are also used in the scriptures in other contexts with several different meanings. Doctrinal Study Salvation
Mormon doctrines are false.
 
You are not making any sense...When did His son pay your debt? Was it before you became a so-called christian or after? You seem to be saying that one must be a christian before the debt is paid. And that Jesus did not die for all men.
Acts 17
22 Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious.
23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, To The Unknown God. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.
24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
You're not making sense.
 
You claim that God is not giving hearing so that certain people will not be saved.
I made no such claim. I asked you a question. This is your claim...
Janice Bower said:
Hearing is given by God to those same people He is saving.
He is not showing mercy to wicked men. Imagine that!
So who is God showing mercy to? Please show me one who was not wicked at some point.
God doesn't make men wicked nor does He ever tell them to sin.
I never made those claims, all I am asking you is to show me the non-wicked or non-sinners that God is showing mercy. Since if they were not wicked and not sinners why would they need mercy?
Jude 1
God’s Judgment on the Ungodly

3 Beloved, although I made every effort to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt it necessary to write and urge you to contend earnestly for the faith entrusted once for all to the saints. 4 For certain men have crept in among you unnoticed—ungodly ones who were designated long ago for condemnation. They turn the grace of our God into a license for immorality, and they deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

5 Although you are fully aware of this, I want to remind you that after Jesus had delivered His people out of the land of Egypt, He destroyed those who did not believe. 6 And the angels who did not stay within their own domain but abandoned their proper dwelling—these He has kept in eternal chains under darkness, bound for judgment on that great day. 7 In like manner, Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, who indulged in sexual immorality and pursued strange flesh, are on display as an example of those who sustain the punishment of eternal fire.

Mercy is not deserved and God isn't obligated to bestow it.
I never made that argument. You are claiming
Janice Bower said:
Hearing is given by God to those same people He is saving.
Janice Bower said:
God created us and His Son paid our debt.

All I am asking is who are those that god gave hearing and who are those he did not give hearing. Plus whose debt was paid and whose debt was not paid.




1 Timothy 1:12-16
12 I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has given me strength, that he considered me trustworthy, appointing me to his service. 13 Even though I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man, I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief. 14 The grace of our Lord was poured out on me abundantly, along with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus.
15 Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am the worst. 16 But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life.
This passage shows that Paul was a sinner.
 
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You're not making sense.
Show how...I told you how you are not making any sense by using this passage...
Acts 17
22 Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious.
23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, To The Unknown God. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.
24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
...
Please explain how the passage is not making sense. Clearly, salvation is open to all men.
 
Yet the passages in your posts did not address those issues.
How doesn’t 2nd Corinthians 3:14-15 not only address but refute the false doctrine that God regenerates people first,making them spiritually alive,before they can have faith in the Saviour.
2 Corinthians 3:14-15
14
But their minds were blinded; for until this day the same veil remaineth untaken away in the reading of the old testament, which veil is done away with in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their hearts.
16 Nevertheless, when they shall turn to the Lord, the veil shall be taken away.
Read full chapter

1. turn to the Lord
2. the veil shall be taken away.
 
How doesn’t 2nd Corinthians 3:14-15 not only address but refute the false doctrine that God regenerates people first,making them spiritually alive,before they can have faith in the Saviour.

The passage says some Jews are blinded where the NT is concerned ...this has nothing to do with regeneration.
 
The passage says some Jews are blinded where the New Testament is concerned. This has nothing to do with regeneration.
I was going to explain this to you once again however I feel that at this point it would just be a waste of my time and your time.
 
Show how...I told you how you are not making any sense by using this passage...
Acts 17
22 Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious.
23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, To The Unknown God. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.
24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
...
Please explain how the passage is not making sense. Clearly, salvation is open to all men.
Baloney! Not all my relatives hear or have heard the Gospel. You are not making sense. I said nothing about the passage.
 
Janice Bower believes in the doctrine of monergism. She also believes in the doctrine of irresistible grace.

Monergism is the view within Christian theology which holds that God works through the Holy Spirit to bring about the salvation of an individual through spiritual regeneration,regardless of the individual's cooperation. Monergism-Wikipedia

Irresistible grace (also called effectual grace effectual calling,or efficacious grace) is a doctrine in Christian theology particularly associated with Calvinism,which teaches that the saving grace of God is effectually applied to those whom he has determined to save (the elect) and,in God's timing,overcomes their resistance to obeying the call of the gospel,bringing them to faith in Christ. Irresistible Grace-Wikipedia
An unbeliever is unable to cooperate. Faith in Christ saves. I know of zero unbelievers who have faith in Christ. My mother certainly didn't. The elder baptized her anyway.
 
I was going to explain this to you once again however I feel that at this point it would just be a waste of my time and your time.
I spent YEARS in your Mormon religion. What could you tell me that your Mormon leaders couldn't tell me? My sister died in your organization without hearing the Gospel of Christ and very little, if any, Mormon doctrine was ever taught in sacrament meeting.
 
Baloney! Not all my relatives hear or have heard the Gospel.
Are they deaf? Has God failed to have the gospel preached throughout the earth?
You are not making sense. I said nothing about the passage.
So what were you responding to?
There you go again. Not every Gentile is given the necessary change of heart that the Father gives to those HE brings to Christ.
That is your false teaching. Faith comes by hearing the word of God...Those who accept the word obey, those who reject the word
Acts 2:41
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Janice Bower said:
Opportunity isn't always give, it doesn't provide a change of heart, and man's door is already closed until God chooses to open it.

Revelation 3:20
Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Man has to open the door...you are teaching false doctrine...
 
I was going to explain this to you once again however I feel that at this point it would just be a waste of my time and your time.
I spent YEARS in your organization. What can you explain that your false teachers and leaders could not explain? Don't they have an obligation to teach? My sister died as a Mormon. She barely knew anythig of your religion even though she was an active membe for 25 years. Your doctrines are barely mentioned in Sacrament meetings which are open to non-members who aren't supposed to be taught very much. My mother was baptised by a missionary. She didn't believe in the divinity of Christ or know why He died. The missionary baptized her anyway.
 
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