Faith before regeneration is impossible

[Oldsaint24]

Hey, Arminians........you have a big contradiction with what God tells us.

You cannot ignore, although many of you do, what the Lord tells us about unregenerate children of MEN.....not children of God.....but children of men, ie. the unregenerate. And first let me address this point about children of men. If a child of man was regenerate.....he would not be a child of man but a child of God. Spiritual regeneration....the renewing of a spirit by the Holy Spirit is what makes the unregenerate child of man into a regenerate child of God. So, when the Father specifically identifies children of men He is speaking about the unregenerate.

What does God tell us?

Ps. 14, Ps. 53, and Rom. 3 "The Lord looked down from heaven upon the CHILDREN OF MEN (notice....not His children but children of men) to see if there were any who understand, and seek God. They (CHILDREN OF MEN) are all gone aside, are all together become filthy: there is NONE that does good, NO, NOT ONE."

You cannot just ignore what God tells us about children of men. And as the truth of the text stands.......there is NO place for faith with children of men.

And exercise of "faith" by unregenerate children of men would contradict the above text ; which makes the exercise of "faith" by an unregenerate an impossibility.

You cannot come up with any way that an unregenerate can be saved, apart from first being regenerated to life by the Holy Spirit. Faith cannot precede regeneration.

But if you want to make a case without violating the above text........give it a try. Oh, and please don't quote text that contradict the scriptures I cited.....we know the Word of God does not contradict itself. But if you can find a verse of scripture or text in the Bible that says that the unregenerate can exercise "faith"........what I am saying here is all those verses you use to make your case need to make clear those who are identified are unregenerate children of men and NOT children of God.

Oh, and your "prevenient grace" is also an impossibility because that would be a good work by God and once God begins a good work He will perform it to the end; which means everyone will be saved and no one will be lost. Which is not true. We know some will be cast into the lake of fire.

Now, if you want to correctly identify your "prevenient grace" as the actual act of regeneration by the Holy Spirit......you prove my case and the OP.

Question for the Arminian and those like minded. Would the exercise of faith in Jesus......or even believing in Jesus be doing a good thing?

 

[Woody50]

Crickets so far...

 

[TomFL]

Hey, Arminians........you have a big contradiction with what God tells us.

You cannot ignore, although many of you do, what the Lord tells us about unregenerate children of MEN.....not children of God.....but children of men, ie. the unregenerate. And first let me address this point about children of men. If a child of man was regenerate.....he would not be a child of man but a child of God. Spiritual regeneration....the renewing of a spirit by the Holy Spirit is what makes the unregenerate child of man into a regenerate child of God. So, when the Father specifically identifies children of men He is speaking about the unregenerate.

What does God tell us?

Ps. 14, Ps. 53, and Rom. 3 "The Lord looked down from heaven upon the CHILDREN OF MEN (notice....not His children but children of men) to see if there were any who understand, and seek God. They (CHILDREN OF MEN) are all gone aside, are all together become filthy: there is NONE that does good, NO, NOT ONE."

You cannot just ignore what God tells us about children of men. And as the truth of the text stands.......there is NO place for faith with children of men.

And exercise of "faith" by unregenerate children of men would contradict the above text ; which makes the exercise of "faith" by an unregenerate an impossibility.

You cannot come up with any way that an unregenerate can be saved, apart from first being regenerated to life by the Holy Spirit. Faith cannot precede regeneration.

But if you want to make a case without violating the above text........give it a try. Oh, and please don't quote text that contradict the scriptures I cited.....we know the Word of God does not contradict itself. But if you can find a verse of scripture or text in the Bible that says that the unregenerate can exercise "faith"........what I am saying here is all those verses you use to make your case need to make clear those who are identified are unregenerate children of men and NOT children of God.

Oh, and your "prevenient grace" is also an impossibility because that would be a good work by God and once God begins a good work He will perform it to the end; which means everyone will be saved and no one will be lost. Which is not true. We know some will be cast into the lake of fire.

Now, if you want to correctly identify your "prevenient grace" as the actual act of regeneration by the Holy Spirit......you prove my case and the OP.

Question for the Arminian and those like minded. Would the exercise of faith in Jesus......or even believing in Jesus be doing a good thing?

Your problem is scripture clearly mitigates against your claim

James 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

Unregenerate men are regenerated through faith in the word of truth

as only belief profits

Hebrews 4:2 (KJV)
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

1Pet. 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Unregenerate men are regenerated through faith in the word of God

1Cor. 4:15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

Unregenerate men are regenerated through faith in the gospel

John 1:12 (KJV)
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Those who receive Christ are given the right to be Children (teknon from begat) of God

John 20:31 (KJV)
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Acts 11:18 (KJV)
18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Repentance is unto life (regeneration)

John 5:40 (KJV)
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

one must come to Christ by faith to have life

The spiritually dead man is made aliuve by coming to Christ

your second problem is

In Romans chapter 3:10-20 the apostle is seeking to prove that no one can attain righteousness by means of the law.

Its all about law keeping there

no one is righteous by means of law

No one can do good by keeping all the law

in verse 21 however a new means of righteousness is revealed

Romans 3:21-26 (KJV)
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

and it is through faith

You idea one cannot express faith because that is a good thing flies in the face of the text

 

[Oldsaint24]

Your problem is scripture clearly mitigates against your claim

James 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

Unregenerate men are regenerated through faith in the word of truth

as only belief profits

Hebrews 4:2 (KJV)
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

1Pet. 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Unregenerate men are regenerated through faith in the word of God

1Cor. 4:15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

Unregenerate men are regenerated through faith in the gospel

John 1:12 (KJV)
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Those who receive Christ are given the right to be Children (teknon from begat) of God

John 20:31 (KJV)
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Acts 11:18 (KJV)
18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Repentance is unto life (regeneration)

John 5:40 (KJV)
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

one must come to Christ by faith to have life

The spiritually dead man is made aliuve by coming to Christ

your second problem is

In Romans chapter 3:10-20 the apostle is seeking to prove that no one can attain righteousness by means of the law.

Its all about law keeping there

no one is righteous by means of law

No one can do good by keeping all the law

in verse 21 however a new means of righteousness is revealed

Romans 3:21-26 (KJV)
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

and it is through faith

You idea one cannot express faith because that is a good thing flies in the face of the text

Your post is a classic biased response. You are willingly accepting that scripture can and does contradict.itself.......which is a very bad theological position to take! And you do this because you are prejudiced....favoring your personal interpretation of scripture over divine truth that creates a contradiction with your personal view.

Here is just one of your contradictions . You repreatedly stated....."unregenerate men are regenerated through faith in the gospel."
Now that statement clrearly contradicts the text in the OP. But you willingly ignore the contradicion in favor of your biased interpretation.

So ......show me that all your supposed refuting verses and texts are NOT speaking about or referring to already regenerate ......spiritually alive children of God.

Can you see.....comprehend.....and admit that the quoted text in the OP has no allowance for the exercise of faith?

 

[TomFL]

Your post is a classic biased response. You are willingly accepting that scripture can and does contradict.itself.......which is a very bad theological position to take! And you do this because you are prejudiced....favoring your personal interpretation of scripture over divine truth that creates a contradiction with your personal view.

You are very confused. I deny scripture contradicts itself and I note you ignored the the scriptures provided

our problem is scripture clearly mitigates against your claim

James 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

Unregenerate men are regenerated through faith in the word of truth

as only belief profits

Hebrews 4:2 (KJV)
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

1Pet. 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Unregenerate men are regenerated through faith in the word of God

1Cor. 4:15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

Unregenerate men are regenerated through faith in the gospel

John 1:12 (KJV)
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Those who receive Christ are given the right to be Children (teknon from begat) of God

John 20:31 (KJV)
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Acts 11:18 (KJV)
18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Repentance is unto life (regeneration)

John 5:40 (KJV)
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

one must come to Christ by faith to have life

The spiritually dead man is made aliuve by coming to Christ

your second problem is

In Romans chapter 3:10-20 the apostle is seeking to prove that no one can attain righteousness by means of the law.

Its all about law keeping there

no one is righteous by means of law

No one can do good by keeping all the law

in verse 21 however a new means of righteousness is revealed

Romans 3:21-26 (KJV)
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

and it is through faith

You idea one cannot express faith because that is a good thing flies in the face of the text

Here is just one of your contradictions . You repreatedly stated....."unregenerate men are regenerated through faith in the gospel."
Now that statement clrearly contradicts the text in the OP. But you willingly ignore the contradicion in favor of your biased interpretation.

Your op is not scripture. If you actually interacted with what i posted you would ee not only do I deny scripture contradicts itself but I deny your interpretation of the text

Paul's argument is men cannot earn righteousness through law keeping verse 20

However starting in verse 21 he introduces a righteous which is by faith

Romans 3:20-26 (KJV)
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

The idea nan cannot believe is contrary to Pauls argument

So ......show me that all your supposed refuting verses and texts are NOT speaking about or referring to already regenerate ......spiritually alive children of God.

Can you see.....comprehend.....and admit that the quoted text in the OP has no allowance for the exercise of faith?

Already done

You failed to address them

and I already answer your question No

Neither does Paul

 

[Oldsaint24]

So unless prevenient grace is defined as the Calvinistic irresistible grace, you refuse to accept it.

Convenient but unfair way to claim you are right.

Is preveinent grace a good work begun with the individual by God? Does God give this prevenient grace to all? If you believe this you are a universalist and every one is going to be saved. Which is not true.

The only way prevenient grace can be true to the word of God is if it is actually another way of saying regeneration. Anything short of that creates a contrdiction .....a false man made theory trying to explain how the Father saves His children.

Please.......explain how the exercise of faith does not contradict the text in the OP.

 

[Oldsaint24]

Nonsense. Grace in the Bible is defined as something you can RESIST. That by definition can't be "irresistible."

"Do not receive the grace of God in vain."

Oldsaint24 Bible Version: "If God's grace is received it CANNOT be in vain."

"If today you hear his voice harden not your heart."

Oldsaint24 Bible Version: "If today you hear his voice God will either harden your heart or soften it and you have nothing to do with it."

"While you have the light walk in the light."

Oldsaint24 Bible Version: "While you have the light God will force you to walk in the light because his light never fails."

Prevenient grace is enablement to be convicted and admit one is a sinner, receiving further grace from God by trusting in Christ.

Excuse me......the subject in the OP is concerning the ability of an unregenerate child of man to exercising faith. Do not change the subject to grace. That can be discussed after settling the contradiction Arminians and like minded have with the text in the OP.

Please explain how the exercise of faith does not contrdict the text in the op.

 

[Oldsaint24]

Prevenient grace is enablement to be convicted and admit one is a sinner, receiving further grace from God by trusting in Christ.

"Enablement"? What exactlt does God do that "enables"?

Perhaps spiritually regenerates? If not.......what?

 

[Oldsaint24]

So unless prevenient grace is defined as the Calvinistic irresistible grace, you refuse to accept it.

Convenient but unfair way to claim you are right.

Just to be clear......I am not a Calvinist......just one who proclaims truth and exposes error.

 

[TomFL]

"Enablement"? What exactlt does God do that "enables"?

Perhaps spiritually regenerates? If not.......what?

Faith precedes regeneration

for one is born again upon faith in the gospel

James 1:18 (KJV)
18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

1 Peter 1:23 (KJV)
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

1 Corinthians 4:15 (KJV)
15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

 

[brightfame52]

Faith precedes regeneration

for one is born again upon faith in the gospel

James 1:18 (KJV)
18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

1 Peter 1:23 (KJV)
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

1 Corinthians 4:15 (KJV)
15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

The Gospel is hid to the lost/unregenerate 2 Cor 4:3

 

[Oldsaint24]

It enables a person to:

1. Realize they are sinful before God.
2. Desire something holy even though they are a sinner.
3. Understand that Christ bore their sins and offers them forgiveness.
4. Believe that Christ will save them.
5. Express that faith to God through a prayer or some action.

After this, one is the so-called "regenerate" or better, passed from spiritual death into a new life.

You did not answer my question. I did not ask what enablement does.

I asked.........what does God do that enables the individual to do all those things that previously he was unable to do? How does God enable? What changed in the individual?

 

[TomFL]

The Gospel is hid to the lost/unregenerate 2 Cor 4:3

Scripture demonstrated your error

Faith precedes regeneration

for one is born again upon faith in the gospel

James 1:18 (KJV)
18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

1 Peter 1:23 (KJV)
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

1 Corinthians 4:15 (KJV)
15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

All these were born again through believing the gospel

 

[Oldsaint24]

Faith precedes regeneration

for one is born again upon faith in the gospel

James 1:18 (KJV)
18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

1 Peter 1:23 (KJV)
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

1 Corinthians 4:15 (KJV)
15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

Your keep avoiding your contradiction. Just because you write many words that does not make your contradiction magically disappear.

I'll try and make your contradiction, that you keep ignoring as if it is not present in the word of God, more clear.

You say that faith precedes regeneration. The exercising of faith in Jesus is a good thing to do. Exercising faith in Jesus is a virtuous thing to do. Exercising faith in Jesus is a righteous thing to do. Exercising faith in Jesus is decorous, honorable, very profitable and wholesome......all good.

And all that is something the text in the OP......found multiple times in the Bible.......says that unregenerate children of men.........cannot do and do not do.

That my brother is your contradiction. Your preferred understanding of other verses of scripture, other text (your many words) contradicts other passages in the Bible. Thus......you have a contradiction in your theology. I just showed you . You have the Bible contradicting itself.....which is not a very good practice to have when trying to learn the truth. God's children need to face up to the contradictions they find.........I have , and the reason I have NO contradictions with my theology. No one. No one on Carm has yet to prove with the scriptures any contradictory thing I have written. I care more about divine truth that personal theology. I let the truth lead me to where it wants to lead, doctrine and dogma and tradition be damned. I care more about the truth than myself.

Now.....will you admit your personal interpretation of scripture has created a contradiction with other scripture? Will you admit that harmonizing the exercise of faith is not possible with what God tells us about unregenerate children of men? Men who do not seek God, do not understand the things of God and......and.........do NOTHING good in the sight of God?

Question.....would not exercising faith in the Son of God be a good thing in the sight of God? Absolutely......positively YES!!! And that my brother is your contradiction you have been ignoring over your preferred personal theology.

 

[Oldsaint24]

I apologize I misunderstood your question.

What God does is through the Holy Spirit bring an empowerment and vision to a spiritually dead person.

Some call this partial regeneration or you could think of it as provisional regeneration. The terminology is not important, but there is a kind of temporary life flowing, but just enough to enable a decision not to fully regenerate.

It's like the parable of the seed, a seed is not a plant, but a seed still has the principle of life within it. Everything that a plant will be is already in the seed, right, the blueprint and the life force. This seed could be seen as partial regeneration.

Notice in the parable all the various grounds received a seed, and the seed performed differently in each ground. In one scenario a bird was the cause of the seed perishing, in one the hardness of the ground. In two scenarios the seed actually starts to grow into a little plant which dies. One plant dies from the thorns growing with it, and one plant dies from the heat of the sun.

This parable makes no sense under a kind of election were God irresistibly makes someone permanently saved.

Why would God preordain birds? Or thorns? Or those who wither in the sun? If God elected them to wrath or passed over them to never be saved, WHY GIVE THEM A SEED AT ALL?

It's like once you become indoctrinated with this kind of determinism, you can't see all the verses that don't match anymore, it's a blindness.

"Partial, temporary"? So in other words, God can begin a good work in an individual and yet fail? If that is possible in your theology you have a contradiction................Phil. 1:6 "Being confident of this very thing, that He which has begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ;"

And if you say that once God has done this "partial, temporary" work, that He cannot fail.....well.....it obviously is not partial or temporary......and.....and actually looks like the very act of regeneration.

Why can't the man made "prevenient grace" actually be the very act of regeneration of life by the Holy Spirit? The changing of an unregenerate child of man into a regenerate child of God? Can you see that "prevenient grace.....partial enabling, temporary spiritual life......is kind of silly?

 

[brightfame52]

Scripture demonstrated your error

Faith precedes regeneration

for one is born again upon faith in the gospel

James 1:18 (KJV)
18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

1 Peter 1:23 (KJV)
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

1 Corinthians 4:15 (KJV)
15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

All these were born again through believing the gospel

Scripture supports what I am saying. The Gospel is hidden from the lost. 2 Cor 4:3

 

[TomFL]

Your keep avoiding your contradiction. Just because you write many words that does not make your contradiction magically disappear.

I'll try and make your contradiction, that you keep ignoring as if it is not present in the word of God, more clear.

You say that faith precedes regeneration. The exercising of faith in Jesus is a good thing to do. Exercising faith in Jesus is a virtuous thing to do. Exercising faith in Jesus is a righteous thing to do. Exercising faith in Jesus is decorous, honorable, very profitable and wholesome......all good.

And all that is something the text in the OP......found multiple times in the Bible.......says that unregenerate children of men.........cannot do and do not do.

That my brother is your contradiction. Your preferred understanding of other verses of scripture, other text (your many words) contradicts other passages in the Bible. Thus......you have a contradiction in your theology. I just showed you . You have the Bible contradicting itself.....which is not a very good practice to have when trying to learn the truth. God's children need to face up to the contradictions they find.........I have , and the reason I have NO contradictions with my theology. No one. No one on Carm has yet to prove with the scriptures any contradictory thing I have written. I care more about divine truth that personal theology. I let the truth lead me to where it wants to lead, doctrine and dogma and tradition be damned. I care more about the truth than myself.

Now.....will you admit your personal interpretation of scripture has created a contradiction with other scripture? Will you admit that harmonizing the exercise of faith is not possible with what God tells us about unregenerate children of men? Men who do not seek God, do not understand the things of God and......and.........do NOTHING good in the sight of God?

Question.....would not exercising faith in the Son of God be a good thing in the sight of God? Absolutely......positively YES!!! And that my brother is your contradiction you have been ignoring over your preferred personal theology.

First you never address the verses

Faith precedes regeneration

for one is born again upon faith in the gospel

James 1:18 (KJV)
18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

1 Peter 1:23 (KJV)
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

1 Corinthians 4:15 (KJV)
15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

and I have many more

second I deny the bible teaches your view that

You say that faith precedes regeneration. The exercising of faith in Jesus is a good thing to do. Exercising faith in Jesus is a virtuous thing to do. Exercising faith in Jesus is a righteous thing to do. Exercising faith in Jesus is decorous, honorable, very profitable and wholesome......all good.

And all that is something the text in the OP......found multiple times in the Bible.......says that unregenerate children of men.........cannot do and do not do.

Show me a verse in its context that actually states the unregenerate cannot believe the gospel

not verses you interpret to mean that

and here is proof men can believe the gospel

Preaching the Gospel !

Grace is antecedent in the preservation of the saints ! Ps 37:28 For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off. The saints are preserved forever, that is their spiritual interest in Christ. Now it is a...

forums.carm.org

you need to address it

I can post many verses supporting the idea

The gospel can be believed

and that believing leads to new life, regeneration, salvation

you need to actually address these

 

[brightfame52]

tom

Show me a verse in its context that actually states the unregenerate cannot believe the gospel

Argument from silence huh ?

Show us a verse in its context that actually states the unregenerate can believe the Gospel !

 

[Oldsaint24]

Show me a verse in its context that actually states the unregenerate cannot believe the gospel

not verses you interpret to mean that

You are a stubborn one. I did show you verses. No interpretation involved in understanding what God says about children of men.

Will you admit that your understanding of all your selected verses contradict what God says about children of men? If you cannot do that there is really no reason to continue. You are like a blind man saying "I see, I see".

Once you admit your contradiction, I will gladly respond to your misunderstanding of your personally selected and personally interpreted verses.

You are like the detective at a crime scene who finds a note saying "John was here". When there is absolute proof John was not there. You still believe, because you read a note.....that John was there......you willfully want to believe John was there in spite of truth saying otherwise. You
willfully ignore the absolute truth/fact that John was not there. Likewise you read scriptures you think mean something. Yet there is proof that what you think cannot be true. So you willfully ignore those scriptures that prove what you think cannot be true. Comprehend your error? How do you ever expect to learn the truth that way?

So. is exercising faith in Jesus a good thing to do? Yes or no? Don't ignore this question and answer.

 

[TomFL]

Scripture supports what I am saying. The Gospel is hidden from the lost. 2 Cor 4:3

Sorry context was presented showing it does not support you

you just ignore it

all are lost until saved and the bible is clear one must believe to be saved

Acts 16:31 (KJV)
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

John 20:31 (KJV)
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Romans 10:9 (KJV)
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

2 Thessalonians 2:10 (KJV)
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.