Fallacy that command implies ability !

[Theo1689]

Have you thought about what total inability means?

<sigh>

I wonder if you can post a thought without being incredibly insulting.

Yet, I posted a thread about Cornelius from Acts 10, an unsaved man who was wanting to be saved.

And?
Do you want a "Hero Biscuit" for wasting everyone's time?

Remember I discussed justification by faith in the OT from Rom 3-5?

I find that I lose brain cells whenever I read your posts.
So I tend not to bother reading your posts.

I am not assuming that a command implies ability, I know it does.

You are in error.

Acts 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device. 30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: 31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

You've demonstrated a "command".
You have NOT demonstrated that it "implies ability".

I did not even have to try hard,

<Chuckle>
I can tell.
That's why you failed miserably.

Theo, and I gave you scenarios above that demonstrates your teaching of total inability is inconsistent with the scriptures.

No, actually, you didn't.

How are you going to handle that?

<Chuckle>

You posted Scriptures.
We believe Scriptures.
You demonstrate that don't UNDERSTAND what the Scriptures teach.

How am I "going to handle that"?
I'm going to continue to live my life, love God, study the Scriptures, and reject your heresies.
And I'm likely going to put you on "ignore" in the near future, since the more posts of yours I read, the more brain cells die. And I don't like it when my brain cells die.

Are you just going to say that I am mean to you and therefore you are not going to answer?

No, I'm going to say you ignore my reponses, and misrepresent me, so I'm not going to waste my time answering.

Over the years I've found that bullies with gigantic chips on their shoulders, such as yourself, know nothing about what the Scriptures teach, and are simply seeking attention. That's why they (you) constantly harass people who have no desire to hear from them.

As I say, the more of your posts I read, the more of my brain cells die.

Yes, I have thought through them. I have given them lots of thought. That is why I am here. Because I don't think most Calvinists think on their own.

More insults by you.
This is why your posts are a waste of space.

It is more like programming. I think there might be a point when reasoning and logic is no longer possible. I was amazed at the responses in my Cornelius thread. It is not at all difficult to follow the logic in that historical offering yet it seems like no one gets it. why is that?

Because you don't understand anything.

If my teaching is false I don't want them to accept it. But, it is not false and the scriptures nowhere presents us with the Calvinist teaching of total depravity.

You are mistaken.
But you should not mistake your misguided stubbornness, for truth.

It is just a dark miracle that a person of your intellectual stature and achievements could be persuaded to fall for something like that. An average 5th grader would know better.

<sigh>

More insults.

Why do you think that people who you constantly insult are going to care at ALL about the false teachings you proclaim?

Read my Cornelius thread and you will see an unsaved man doing all the things your religion teaches that an unsaved man cannot do. We will talk about consistency then.

No, we won't.
Because I'm not going to waste my time.
God forbids me from wasting my time.

 

[Reformedguy]

If command implies ability were true there then the necessity for Christ to live a perfect life under the law in our place would never needed to occur. Christs 1st Coming is evidence that command does not imply ability. The law as Paul states clearly is to reveal all are under sin and that there is none righteous no not one, there is none who does good no not one. The purpose of the law was to reveal sin and that we are utterly helpless under the law to obey.

Romans 7:5-12
So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5 For when we were in the realm of the flesh,[a] the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. 6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.
7 What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.”[b] 8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. 9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 11 For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.

Galatians 2:16
know that a man is not justified by works of the Law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the Law, because by works of the Law no one will be justified.

Galatians 3:19-26
19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.

21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.Go

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

hope this helps !!!

Good post civic. Command does not imply ability. Jesus tells us to be perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect. Do these people really believe they have the ability to choose to be perfect as our Father in heaven? That would be for a lifetime. Not one mistake. So silly

 

[JDS]

<sigh>

I wonder if you can post a thought without being incredibly insulting.



And?
Do you want a "Hero Biscuit" for wasting everyone's time?



I find that I lose brain cells whenever I read your posts.
So I tend not to bother reading your posts.



You are in error.





You've demonstrated a "command".
You have NOT demonstrated that it "implies ability".



<Chuckle>
I can tell.
That's why you failed miserably.



No, actually, you didn't.



<Chuckle>

You posted Scriptures.
We believe Scriptures.
You demonstrate that don't UNDERSTAND what the Scriptures teach.

How am I "going to handle that"?
I'm going to continue to live my life, love God, study the Scriptures, and reject your heresies.
And I'm likely going to put you on "ignore" in the near future, since the more posts of yours I read, the more brain cells die. And I don't like it when my brain cells die.



No, I'm going to say you ignore my reponses, and misrepresent me, so I'm not going to waste my time answering.

Over the years I've found that bullies with gigantic chips on their shoulders, such as yourself, know nothing about what the Scriptures teach, and are simply seeking attention. That's why they (you) constantly harass people who have no desire to hear from them.

As I say, the more of your posts I read, the more of my brain cells die.



More insults by you.
This is why your posts are a waste of space.



Because you don't understand anything.



You are mistaken.
But you should not mistake your misguided stubbornness, for truth.



<sigh>

More insults.

Why do you think that people who you constantly insult are going to care at ALL about the false teachings you proclaim?



No, we won't.
Because I'm not going to waste my time.
God forbids me from wasting my time.

If someone is wondering if your insults bother me, the answer is no. I actually chuckle occasionally when I read your stuff.

 

[PeanutGallery]

They are spiritually dead enough not to perform any spiritual obedience to God, like repent, or believe in Christ.

That is why God sent witnesses:
Creation testifying, law written in the hearts, conscience bearing witness, Holy Spirit reproving, his only begotten Son, the gospel the power of God.

 

[Theo1689]

If someone is wondering if your insults bother me, the answer is no. I actually chuckle occasionally when I read your stuff.

You assume we're stupid and "have never thought through" anything, but you're accusing ME of being "insulting"?!

Seriously?!
You clearly have zero self-awareness.

 

[brightfame52]

That is why God sent witnesses:
Creation testifying, law written in the hearts, conscience bearing witness, Holy Spirit reproving, his only begotten Son, the gospel the power of God.

The Spiritually dead can do nothing spiritual, they dead to God !

 

[PeanutGallery]

The Spiritually dead can do nothing spiritual, they dead to God !

That is why God sent witnesses:
Creation testifying, law written in the hearts, conscience bearing witness, Holy Spirit reproving, his only begotten Son, the gospel the power of God.

You need to demonstrate that God also needs to send additional regeneration in the Old and new Covenant in order for any to believe the witnesses.

 

[JDS]

You assume we're stupid and "have never thought through" anything, but you're accusing ME of being "insulting"?!

Seriously?!
You clearly have zero self-awareness.

You are projecting. I do not think anyone is stupid. I think you are very intelligent. I do think you are blind to spiritual truth. This makes you unreasonable and illogical and you believe people with much less intelligence than you possess who are willing to deceive you into buying into some things that defy reality. I am perplexed as to why you let them do it.

I have given some logical and reasonable arguments here that if you were to digest them logically instead of emotionally would help you instead of having me in the false prophet group. Intelligence does not equal discernment. Calvinism proves that.

 

[Theo1689]

I do think you are blind to spiritual truth.

That's called an "insult".

This makes you unreasonable and illogical

That's called an "insult".

and you believe people with much less intelligence than you possess

So I'm "gullible"?
That's called an "insult".

who are willing to deceive you

That's called an "insult".

into buying into some things that defy reality.

That's called an "insult".

I have given some logical and reasonable arguments here

That's called "boasting".
It's also called "puffing up pride".
It's also called "bearing false witness".

that if you were to digest them logically instead of emotionally

That's called an "insult".

would help you instead of having me in the false prophet group.

If you want to get out of the "false prophet group", then simply stop acting like a false prophet. That's not under my control.

Intelligence does not equal discernment. Calvinism proves that.

That's called an "insult".

 

[brightfame52]

That is why God sent witnesses:
Creation testifying, law written in the hearts, conscience bearing witness, Holy Spirit reproving, his only begotten Son, the gospel the power of God.

You need to demonstrate that God also needs to send additional regeneration in the Old and new Covenant in order for any to believe the witnesses.

I dont need to demonstrate anything. The Spiritually dead cant do anything Spiritual, they dead, alienated from the life of God, dead in sin.

 

[PeanutGallery]

That is why God sent witnesses:
Creation testifying, law written in the hearts, conscience bearing witness, Holy Spirit reproving, his only begotten Son, the gospel the power of God.

You need to demonstrate that God also needs to send additional regeneration in the Old and new Covenant in order for any to believe the witnesses.

I dont need to demonstrate anything. The Spiritually dead cant do anything Spiritual, they dead, alienated from the life of God, dead in sin.

Translation: I can't demonstrate.

 

[JDS]

That's called an "insult".



That's called an "insult".



So I'm "gullible"?
That's called an "insult".



That's called an "insult".



That's called an "insult".



That's called "boasting".
It's also called "puffing up pride".
It's also called "bearing false witness".



That's called an "insult".



If you want to get out of the "false prophet group", then simply stop acting like a false prophet. That's not under my control.



That's called an "insult".

Now that I know what comments are insults according to your standards, I am looking to see if you have ever insulted me or anyone else in your long history on this forum. Can you help me find one?

 

[Joe]

No one here denies that; the problem is when people equate inability to obey the law with inability to call upon God for mercy.

Why do some believe (confidently trust) that a man living two thousand years ago and died on a cross is the very One who made us, died for us, and rose for us and other people disbelieve?

Unbelief is what makes people unable to call upon God for mercy. It is God out of mercy who makes unbelievers believers.

The question is: Did you PeanutGallery believe (confidently trust) that a man living two thousand years ago and died on a cross is the very One who made us, died for us, and rose for us without God dragging you to that belief?

Why does one need dragged to belief in Jesus? Can one be dragged to Jesus and not believe?

God bless

 

[PeanutGallery]

... Can one be dragged to Jesus and not believe?

Yes; read the parable: Matt 22:9-13, Matt 13: 47,48

 

[travelah]

If command implies ability were true there then the necessity for Christ to live a perfect life under the law in our place would never needed to occur. Christs 1st Coming is evidence that command does not imply ability. The law as Paul states clearly is to reveal all are under sin and that there is none righteous no not one, there is none who does good no not one. The purpose of the law was to reveal sin and that we are utterly helpless under the law to obey.

Romans 7:5-12
So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5 For when we were in the realm of the flesh,[a] the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. 6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.
7 What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.”[b] 8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. 9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 11 For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.

Galatians 2:16
know that a man is not justified by works of the Law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the Law, because by works of the Law no one will be justified.

Galatians 3:19-26
19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.

21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

hope this helps !!!

This strikes me as very misguided. Give me an example of a command that you are unable to perform, a command that would be applicable to us in this era. I'm not looking for "Go and sin no more". Think about this before you reply. In the meantime ....

I've hired civic to work for me along with a dozen or so others and I'm going to take a few of them along with me when we move up. I've decided civic won't be one of them so I'm going to command him to do things I know he isn't capable of completing in an acceptable manner. When he fails, I'm going to fire him because he didn't do what I commanded. On the other hand, I'm going to assist the ones I want so that they don't fail.... and everybody calls me just.

 

[Theo1689]

This strikes me as very misguided. Give me an example of a command that you are unable to perform, a command that would be applicable to us in this era.

Thou shalt not covet.
Thou shalt not murder (including anger, Matt. 5:21-22).
Thou shalt not commit adultery (including lust, Matt. 5:27-28).
Thou shalt not bear false witness.

I've hired civic to work for me along with a dozen or so others and I'm going to take a few of them along with me when we move up. I've decided civic won't be one of them so I'm going to command him to do things I know he isn't capable of completing in an acceptable manner. When he fails, I'm going to fire him because he didn't do what I commanded. On the other hand, I'm going to assist the ones I want so that they don't fail.... and everybody calls me just.

You confuse "justice" (the relationship between God and man) with "fairness" (the relationship between the treatment of one man and another).

God doesn't treat everyone the same.
He treated Jacob differently than Esau.
He treated Moses differently than Pharaoh.

God gave us the commandments because they describe the nature of His Holiness.
His "justice" comes into play when He blesses those who perfectly keep them (like Jesus), or justly condemns those who don't (eg. the rest of the world).

The reason God commands us to obey commands we cannot, is so that we come to a point where we ADMIT our inability, and cry for mercy to our Creator:

Rom. 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.


It is God's MERCY that saves us, not His "justice":

"The grace of God is love freely shown towards guilty sinners, contrary to their merit and indeed in defiance of their demerit. It is God showing goodness to persons who deserve only severity and who had no reason to expect anything but severity"
-- J.I. Packer, "Knowing God".

 

[Joe]

Yes; read the parable: Matt 22:9-13, Matt 13: 47,48

The parable of the wedding feast is about God sending His Son into the world, and the Jewish people who should have celebrated His coming rejected Him, bringing judgment upon themselves. As a result the kingdom of heaven was opened up to anyone in the world (Gentiles) who will set aside their own righteousness and by faith accept the righteousness God provides in Christ. Those who spurn the gift of salvation and cling instead to their own “good” works like the guest without a wedding garment will spend eternity in hell.

And the parable of the net is about the missionary work of the church, whereby a variety of people go to church, and out of those some are genuine believers while others are imposters of the faith.

Neither parable has anything to do with our God dragging those whom He foreknew to Jesus and them not believing. What makes you think it does?

And did you PeanutGallery believe (confidently trust) all on your own without God dragging you to believe in a man living two thousand years ago and died on a cross as the very One who made us, died for us, and rose for us?

Please let me answer the question for you...Just like me and the rest of everyone who is given to Jesus by the Father, we are dragged to Him. Curious..Do you find that offensive?

"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day." (Joh 6:44)
And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.” (Joh 6:65)

God certainly imposes requirements on sinful man that we are incapable of doing. Even coming to Jesus for salvation requires God to drag us, for we are incapable of doing so on our own.

God bless

 

[SovereignGrace]

@Joe “Prophesy over these bones and say to them, ‘O dry bones, hear the word of the Lord.’” God told these dry bones to hear through the words of Ezekiel. These bones didnt even have ears, yet they were told(commanded) to hear the word of the Lord. Yes, God commands us to do that which is impossible for us to do, and to punish us accordingly.

 

[PeanutGallery]

...
...
And did you PeanutGallery believe (confidently trust) all on your own without God dragging you to believe in a man living two thousand years ago and died on a cross as the very One who made us, died for us, and rose for us?...

By what means does he drag us?

 

[Joe]

By what means does he drag us?

Please glorify the Lord and tell us how you were dragged to believe that Jesus, a man who lived thousands of years ago, died on a cross, rose from death is God, Lord, and Savior.

God bless