Fallacy that command implies ability !

PeanutGallery

Well-known member
Please glorify the Lord and tell us how you were dragged to believe that Jesus, a man who lived thousands of years ago, died on a cross, rose from death is God, Lord, and Savior.

God bless
Please glorify the Lord and tell us how one is dragged to believe in Jesus.
I can't find scripture which states that one is dragged to believe.

If you provide the verse then we can check the context.
 

Joe

Active member
I will gladly give glory to our God for He alone deserves all the praise for my salvation and everything afterwards!

I was young, 11-13 yrs old (1972-74), when thoughts shot through my mind asking me about life, and I was drawn inward and upward where I was taken above the earth into space and noticed the lifelessness of space. I then was facing down towards earth and rushing towards it and noticed it was lifeless too even though the multitude of people were moving and going about their day. I was asked again why was I here on earth, what was life about, what is my purpose. The questions kept coming, and as they did, the direction they came from was intensely bright. I was drawn to the light, as it was magnificent and nothing like anything of this earth. The questions kept coming and the intensity increased until I finally turned my face away because of the glory. The light went away but the questions remained.

I began reading a bible that was in our house and became fixated upon the person who spoke in red letters. The questions kept coming and so did my reading. I knew there was something special about Jesus after reading the stories (Gospels), I didn't believe in Jesus at that time but kept reading because of the attraction. As I grew up, I would read more and more, and eventually understood the story (Gospel) that Jesus was supposed to be the Son of God and that believing in Him would save us, but my heart fell in love with this world and I became a horrible sinful person and stopped reading so much, but the thoughts never stopped.

As I grew into my late teens, I was fully engaged and deep into sin, and the thoughts that provoked me became pressing about Jesus and life. I would occasionally go back to reading and each time the pressing thoughts kept challenging me that Jesus was real, that He was alive, and that I needed Him. I was still living to and loving sin and doing terrible things but kept being drawn back to reading. It became apparent to me that it was God who gave me the vision. I never knew what a vision was until I read the bible. And even though I knew it was God who had been reasoning with me, I still loved sin and kept at it.

By this time in my life, I became increasingly pressed that Jesus was real because it was God who was drawing me to Him. I continued in my sinning and ignoring God, but He never stopped drawing me to believe in Jesus and new life free from sin. I would be drunk and high at a party when the Lord would begin drawing me to believe in Jesus and the life He had for me. In those short minutes of drawing, I would come away straight as if I never had been drunk or high just minutes ago. I would get up and leave, stunning those around because they knew my former condition.

The Lord kept reasoning with me and drawing me no matter where and no matter what I was doing. It was a constant and daily activity. The Lord was dragging me into belief of Jesus and repentance. I fought for years, and the Lord was most merciful to me and never stopped. I knew who it was and didn't fear Him…That is really being dead in sin! The Lord began to produce fear of Him in my heart and I would begin to call out for Jesus to forgive me, but my heart wasn't done with sin and ready to repent and really believe in Jesus Christ.

As the time went, the Spirit of the Lord taught me that Jesus is real and alive. He taught me that by calling out to Jesus I would be forgiven. He taught me that I must be all in for Jesus no matter the cost of my family and friendships. He taught me that I must be witness of Jesus Christ and not hide in fear. He taught me that God loved me and had a new and marvelous life for me to live. All of this was taught to me from reading the red letters in the bible.

One day the Lord's mercy and compassion finally yielded the results that He had worked in me since my youth. During heavy drawing to repent and believe in all that He taught me that literally shook me, I bowed my knees but most importantly, I bowed my heart and called to Jesus Christ to forgive me. I no longer wanted to live in sin but in faith of Jesus and the new life that was promised. In that instant the One who had been with me since my youth no longer was drawing me to repent and believe in Jesus....that was over. My journey in a new life began.

“All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.” (Joh 6:37)

No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. It is written in the Prophets, ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me— (Joh 6:44-45)

But there are some of you who do not believe.” (For Jesus knew from the beginning who those were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray him.) And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.” (Joh 6:64-65)

The Spirit of the Lord has been with me since my youth. He literally dragged me and birthed me into faith and repentance in Jesus Christ, and I love Him for it. I have failed Him many times since, but He has never left me and has promised to never leave me. Thank you, Holy Father for loving me! Thank you, Holy Father for saving me! Thank you, Holy Father for showing me mercy and compassion! Praise the name of Jesus Christ, God’s one and only Son!

I hope your Christmas day is full of joy brother.

God bless
 

PeanutGallery

Well-known member
Please glorify the Lord and tell us how you were dragged to believe that Jesus ...
...
“All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.” (Joh 6:37)

No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. It is written in the Prophets, ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me— (Joh 6:44-45)

But there are some of you who do not believe.” (For Jesus knew from the beginning who those were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray him.) And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.” (Joh 6:64-65)
...
You are equating dragging with drawing and granting?
God draws those who hear and learn, and grants those who believe; nothing in there which states dragging, let alone irresistibly.
 

Joe

Active member
You are equating dragging with drawing and granting?
God draws those who hear and learn, and grants those who believe; nothing in there which states dragging, let alone irresistibly.
I asked you to give God glory by testifying how He brought you to faith and repentance in Jesus Christ. You refused. I'm not sure why you would decline to give glory to God for your salvation. I would not treat you with contempt.

Did you read my testimony of God's mercy and compassion that He shown me for decades since my early childhood?

You will notice that at no point did I state that God asked me to repent and confidently trust that Jesus is His Son and would save me. The reason for this is because He never did. This is what He did; He made a believer out of me. Did He make one out of you or did you do it?...Please answer this question. It is not that difficult.

Once you begin engaging in open and honest dialogue with me, I will respond to your desire to work out the use of words. If you read my testimony, you will see the proof is in the pudding regarding those words.

God bless
 

PeanutGallery

Well-known member
I asked you to give God glory by testifying how He brought you to faith and repentance in Jesus Christ. You refused. I'm not sure why you would decline to give glory to God for your salvation. I would not treat you with contempt.

Did you read my testimony of God's mercy and compassion that He shown me for decades since my early childhood?...
Testimonies are subjective truth, not objective truth.
Scripture states objective truth; within the context of the verses you provided:
God draws those who hear and learn, and grants those who believe; nothing in there which states dragging, let alone irresistibly.
 

Joe

Active member
Testimonies are subjective truth, not objective truth.
Scripture states objective truth; within the context of the verses you provided:
God draws those who hear and learn, and grants those who believe; nothing in there which states dragging, let alone irresistibly.
I asked for you to give glory to God for a reason. I wanted to over the absolute truths that God drew you to Christ - He produced faith in Christ within your heart, He reasoned within you to come to Jesus, He convinced you that Jesus was real and alive and that by calling out to Him you would be saved, and that He granted you repentance and drew you to putting faith in Jesus.

I gave you my testimony for within are experiential truths that relate to absolute truths. I encourage you to go over your own experience and relate it to the absolute truths from the Lord…talk about Words that are spirit and life, wow.

You can reject experiential truth, but then again you are rejecting what God expected us to experience..."And it is impossible to please God without faith. Anyone who wants to come to him must believe that God exists and that he rewards those who sincerely seek him." (Heb 11:6)

From Robertson...Except the Father draw him (ean mē helkusēi auton). Negative condition of third class with ean mē and first aorist active subjunctive of helkuō, older form helkō, to drag like a net (Joh_21:6), or sword (Joh_18:10), or men (Act_16:19), to draw by moral power (Joh_12:32), as in Jer_31:3.

helkó: to drag

And he said unto them, Cast the net on the right side of the ship, and ye shall find. They cast therefore, and now they were not able to draw it for the multitude of fishes. (Joh 21:6)

Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus.(Joh 18:10)

And when her masters saw that the hope of their gains was gone, they caught Paul and Silas, and drew them into the marketplace unto the rulers, (Act 16:19)

And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. (Joh 12:32)

The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.(Jer 31:3)

I used language that purposely inflamed your understanding of absolute and experiential truth to get you to understand that it is God who saved you completely. We experience what God has done. We were given the privilege to repentance. We were given the privilege to come to Jesus. We were drawn-dragged to Jesus by the Holy Spirit of God who did everything necessary for us to come to exercising our faith He gave us.
What part did you have in the saving of yourself except to respond accordingly to the Lord's lovingkindness as He purposed?

God bless
 
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PeanutGallery

Well-known member
... I wanted to over the absolute truths that God drew you to Christ ...
Yes, God drew me to Christ, Christ drew all men to himself; however, scripture does not state irresistible drawing.

- He produced faith in Christ within your heart, ...
Yes, that is what scripture states:
Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

He reasoned within you to come to Jesus, He convinced you that Jesus was real and alive and that by calling out to Him you would be saved, and that He granted you repentance and drew you to putting faith in Jesus.
Yes, that is what scripture states; God reasoned with me.
Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

..."And it is impossible to please God without faith. Anyone who wants to come to him must believe that God exists and that he rewards those who sincerely seek him." (Heb 11:6)
Yes, I agree that is what scripture states.

I used language that purposely inflamed your understanding of absolute and experiential truth to get you to understand that it is God who saved you completely.
Who says otherwise; God completely saves those who believe.
1Cor 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
 

Joe

Active member
Yes, God drew me to Christ, Christ drew all men to himself; however, scripture does not state irresistible drawing.


Yes, that is what scripture states:
Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.


Yes, that is what scripture states; God reasoned with me.
Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.


Yes, I agree that is what scripture states.


Who says otherwise; God completely saves those who believe.
1Cor 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
What did you do for your salvation that God did not make happen?
 
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