Fatalism is divine meticulous determinism for calvinists

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guest1

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Websters affirms this below, the calvinist affirms this with their proof texts here: Prov 16:4 ,1 Peter 2:8 and the WCF also affirms this in the confession. Romans 9 and double predestination also affirms its fatalism by the definition. As we see it makes God unjust.

fatalism noun


fa·tal·ism | \ ˈfā-tə-ˌli-zəm \

Definition of fatalism : a doctrine that events are fixed in advance so that human beings are powerless to change them also : a belief in or attitude determined by this doctrine​

 
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guest1

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I think the argument would be that fatalism is based on fate, not God.
The outcome, nevertheless, is the same; those decreed by God to go to hell, or those decreed by fate to go to hell.
Oh I agree but the calvinist doctrines of determinism, predestination and sovereignty is the same as fatalism.
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Websters affirms this below, the calvinist affirms this with their proof texts here: Prov 16:4 ,1 Peter 2:8 and the WCF also affirms this in the confession. Romans 9 and double predestination also affirms its fatalism by the definition. As we see it makes God unjust.

fatalism noun


fa·tal·ism | \ ˈfā-tə-ˌli-zəm \

Definition of fatalism : a doctrine that events are fixed in advance so that human beings are powerless to change them also : a belief in or attitude determined by this doctrine​

I would say there is a difference between Fatalism and Providence. I agree with Arminius that the Will of God and Man flow concurrently. This is contrary to the notion that human Beings are powerless...
 

Simpletruther

Well-known member
Websters affirms this below, the calvinist affirms this with their proof texts here: Prov 16:4 ,1 Peter 2:8 and the WCF also affirms this in the confession. Romans 9 and double predestination also affirms its fatalism by the definition. As we see it makes God unjust.

fatalism noun


fa·tal·ism | \ ˈfā-tə-ˌli-zəm \

Definition of fatalism : a doctrine that events are fixed in advance so that human beings are powerless to change them also : a belief in or attitude determined by this doctrine​

And? No it doesnt make God unjust.
 

Simpletruther

Well-known member
Websters affirms this below, the calvinist affirms this with their proof texts here: Prov 16:4 ,1 Peter 2:8 and the WCF also affirms this in the confession. Romans 9 and double predestination also affirms its fatalism by the definition. As we see it makes God unjust.

fatalism noun


fa·tal·ism | \ ˈfā-tə-ˌli-zəm \

Definition of fatalism : a doctrine that events are fixed in advance so that human beings are powerless to change them also : a belief in or attitude determined by this doctrine​

You better get used to being powerless to change history. You have an eternity to adjust to that reality.
 

Howie

Well-known member
Websters affirms this below, the calvinist affirms this with their proof texts here: Prov 16:4 ,1 Peter 2:8 and the WCF also affirms this in the confession. Romans 9 and double predestination also affirms its fatalism by the definition. As we see it makes God unjust.

fatalism noun


fa·tal·ism | \ ˈfā-tə-ˌli-zəm \

Definition of fatalism : a doctrine that events are fixed in advance so that human beings are powerless to change them also : a belief in or attitude determined by this doctrine​

You're again using words you don't understand.

Fatalism and Determinism are philosophical terms, not theological terms.

HERE you'll find the distinction between the two.

... fatalism is the theory that there is some destiny that we cannot avoid, although we are able to take different paths up to this destiny. Determinism, however, is the theory that the entire path of our life is decided by earlier events and actions.
 
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Howie

Well-known member
Oh I agree but the calvinist doctrines of determinism, predestination and sovereignty is the same as fatalism.
If that is true, then God is a God without purpose.

Do you synergists believe that God's Predestination is purposeless? 🤔
 
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Howie

Well-known member
I think the argument would be that fatalism is based on fate, not God.
The outcome, nevertheless, is the same; those decreed by God to go to hell, or those decreed by fate to go to hell.
Why does God need to predestine anyone to hell? Can you explain that from scripture, or that just a "feeling" you have?
 

Howie

Well-known member
I think the argument would be that fatalism is based on fate, not God.
The outcome, nevertheless, is the same; those decreed by God to go to hell, or those decreed by fate to go to hell.
Why does God need to predestine anyone to hell? Can you explain that, or is that just a "feeling" you have?
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
Websters affirms this below, the calvinist affirms this with their proof texts here: Prov 16:4 ,1 Peter 2:8 and the WCF also affirms this in the confession. Romans 9 and double predestination also affirms its fatalism by the definition. As we see it makes God unjust.

fatalism noun


fa·tal·ism | \ ˈfā-tə-ˌli-zəm \

Definition of fatalism : a doctrine that events are fixed in advance so that human beings are powerless to change them also : a belief in or attitude determined by this doctrine​

Problem is then your a fatalist as we well. You do affirm God's omniscience correct?
 

PeanutGallery

Well-known member
Why does God need to predestine anyone to hell? Can you explain that from scripture, or that just a "feeling" you have?
Scripturally, those who reject God's salvation are destined to hell. This OP is about Calvinist's Predestination, of which there are two flavours: 'single predestination' or 'double predestination'.
 

Howie

Well-known member
Scripturally, those who reject God's salvation are destined to hell.
Correct. God does not need to predestine anyone to hell.

This OP is about Calvinist's Predestination, of which there are two flavours: 'single predestination' or 'double predestination'.
FYI, Calvinists cannot predestine sinners to hell, only God can predestine sinners to hell, and I don't believe he does that. He leaves them in their sin.
 

PeanutGallery

Well-known member
...
FYI, Calvinists cannot predestine sinners to hell, ...
Obviously.
...
only God can predestine sinners to hell, and I don't believe he does that. He leaves them in their sin.
Then you would find yourself in Calvinism's 'single predestination'.
"3._____ By the decree of God, for the manifestation of his glory, some men and angels are predestinated, or
foreordained to eternal life through Jesus Christ, to the praise of his glorious grace; others being left to act in their sin to their just condemnation, to the praise of his glorious justice."
 

Howie

Well-known member
Obviously.

Then you would find yourself in Calvinism's 'single predestination'.
"3._____ By the decree of God, for the manifestation of his glory, some men and angels are predestinated, or
foreordained to eternal life through Jesus Christ, to the praise of his glorious grace; others being left to act in their sin to their just condemnation, to the praise of his glorious justice."
Yes.
 

Bocco

Active member
There is a story of a little Dutch boy, which embodies very fairly the difference between God and Fate. This little boy's home was on a dyke in Holland, near a great wind-mill, whose long arms swept so close to the ground as to endanger those who carelessly strayed under them. But he was very fond of playing precisely under this mill. His anxious parents had forbidden him to go near it; and, when his stubborn will did not give way, had sought to frighten him away from it by arousing his imagination to the terror of being struck by the arms and carried up into the air to have life beaten out of him by their ceaseless strokes. One day, heedless of their warning, he strayed again under the dangerous arms, and was soon absorbed in his play there forgetful of everything but his present pleasures. Perhaps, he was half conscious of a breeze springing up; and somewhere in the depth of his soul, he may have been obscurely aware of the danger with which he had been threatened. At any rate, suddenly, as he played, he was violently smitten from behind, and found himself swung all at once, with his head downward, up into the air; and then the blows came, swift and hard! 0 what a sinking of the heart! 0 what a horror of great darkness! It had come then! And he was gone! In his terrified writhing, he twisted himself about, and looking up, saw not the immeasureable expanse of the brazen heavens above him, but his father's face. At once, he realized, with a great revulsion, that he was not caught in the mill, but was only receiving the threatened punishment of his disobedience. He melted into tears, not of pain, but of relief and joy. In that moment, he understood the difference between falling into the grinding power of a machine and into the loving hands of a father.

That is the difference between Fate and Predestination. And all the language of men cannot tell the immensity of the difference.

by B. B. Warfield​

 
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