Fatalism is divine meticulous determinism for calvinists

Christian

Well-known member
I always say that God has the right to punish sinners by pushing them off a cliff himself or having someone push a person off a cliff. There's no way of getting around this fact. Are you against that?
So you could push someone off a cliff in the name of the Lord and be justified since everyone is a sinner including all believers ?
 

Dizerner

Well-known member
So you could push someone off a cliff in the name of the Lord and be justified since everyone is a sinner including all believers ?

Vengeance belongs to the Lord, he has to do it or command someone specifically to do it, we can't just decide to do it on our own.

You know you're not Jesus, right?

You know you're using that simply as an excuse not to give an answer, right?

How insulting can you get.

A person is not claiming to be Jesus by acting like Jesus, what is that logic even?!!

So by acting like Jesus you say the person is literally claiming to be Jesus and deliberating excusing themselves??

By acting the way Jesus did?!

Any non-Calvinist would get banned for posting that.
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
So you could push someone off a cliff in the name of the Lord and be justified since everyone is a sinner including all believers ?
God can. He is the Just and the Justifier of his Ministers of Wrath. At the end of days, his Elect Angels can push someone off a cliff. Please remember the cliff is not my analogy but a borrowed analogy...

Do you believe that God loves Hellions?
 
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Christian

Well-known member
God can. He is the Just and the Justifier of his Ministers of Wrath. At the end, his Elect Angels can push someone off a cliff. Please remember the cliff is not my analogy but a borrowed analogy...

Do you believe that God loves Hellions?
Except common citizens are not ministers of wrath , governments in rule are Gods ministers as Roman’s 13 which is what Paul taught . What believer in the New Testament ministers Gods wrath ?
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Except common citizens are not ministers of wrath , governments in rule are Gods ministers as Roman’s 13 which is what Paul taught . What believer in the New Testament ministers Gods wrath ?
I believe that most people are Ministers of God's Wrath. Would you say that Joseph's brothers were Ministers of God's Wrath?

Do you think that you will be on here all the time?
 

Christian

Well-known member
I believe that most people are Ministers of God's Wrath. Would you say that Joseph's brothers were Ministers of God's Wrath?

Do you think that you will be on here all the time?
I was specifically talking about the New Testament under the teaching of the Apostle’s and Christ regarding ministers of wrath .
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
I was specifically talking about the New Testament under the teaching of the Apostle’s and Christ regarding ministers of wrath .

I was specifically talking about the New Testament under the teaching of the Apostle’s and Christ regarding ministers of wrath .
Well, God had Ministers of Wrath in the Old Testament too; they don't have to be mentioned by name. God had Saints in the Old Testament. God had children in the Old Testament. God had friends in the Old Testament and in the New Testament..

Do you like to play rounds of golf?

Hold on, I'm talking to a lady; that's more important..
 

Christian

Well-known member
Well, God had Ministers of Wrath in the Old Testament too; they don't have to be mentioned by name. God had Saints in the Old Testament. God had children in the Old Testament. God had friends in the Old Testament and in the New Testament..

Do you like to play rounds of golf?

Hold on, I'm talking to a lady; that's more important..
Who let the dogs out , none out on the lose tonight ?
 

Kampioen

Well-known member
I always say that God has the right to punish sinners by pushing them off a cliff himself or having someone push a person off a cliff. There's no way of getting around this fact. Are you against that?

I'm not arguing against God having the right to push someone but us not being allowed to say God forces people, like using divine force or power or even God pushing someone like you agree above but like Reformedguy denies.
 

Slyzr

Well-known member
NO!

No, no, no, no, a thousand times no!

This would excuse every sinner as a vessel of judgment, NO!

We are commanded not to and condemned if we do!

Yup .......

I'm going with man is a not.

Oh wait .....
 
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Rockson

Well-known member
NO!

No, no, no, no, a thousand times no!

This would excuse every sinner as a vessel of judgment, NO!

We are commanded not to and condemned if we do!
Correct and do you see this is the dangerous place that Calvinism takes one?

One can have a perverse and hideous desire to do something unspeakable and if they do it they can feel justified...well because I actually did it God must have ordained it.
 

Slyzr

Well-known member
Correct and do you see this is the dangerous place that Calvinism takes one?

One can have a perverse and hideous desire to do something unspeakable and if they do it they can feel justified...well because I actually did it God must have ordained it.

They do like the no one can be thingy.

How can I be Lord ....... ?

By not being.


Great .......

Now even Jesus is not.
 

Slyzr

Well-known member
Correct and do you see this is the dangerous place that Calvinism takes one?

One can have a perverse and hideous desire to do something unspeakable and if they do it they can feel justified...well because I actually did it God must have ordained it.

Filing sin on people, for people to never be.

Which they do BTW.

Seems problematic.
 
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ReverendRV

Well-known member
NO!

No, no, no, no, a thousand times no!

This would excuse every sinner as a vessel of judgment, NO!

We are commanded not to and condemned if we do!
It's no different than our Soldiers not being guilty of Collateral Damage. God asked who will go be a Lying Spirit for me? God is Providential in All things...

God meant Joseph's brothers selling him into slavery for good; for the saving of many lives. There was collateral damage in this that the brothers meant..
 
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Christian

Well-known member
NO!

No, no, no, no, a thousand times no!

This would excuse every sinner as a vessel of judgment, NO!

We are commanded not to and condemned if we do!
No is right. Notice that nowhere can anyone find a single believer in the New Testament that inflicts Gods wrath on anyone. Romans 13 says it the government that God uses and only Jesus pours out His wrath on all ungodliness in Revelations- the Wrath of the Lamb. Christians are never to administer wrath but we are to save vengeance for the Lord. That is a command to obey for believers.
 

Christian

Well-known member
It's no different than our Soldiers not being guilty of Collateral Damage. God asked who will go be a Lying Spirit for me? God is Providential in All things...

God meant Joseph's brothers selling him into slavery for good; for the saving of many lives. There was collateral damage in this that the brothers meant..
You are conflating war with the Christian life- apples to oranges.
 
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