BJ Bear
Well-known member
People are baptized into Christ, threfore, there is no scriptural or logical reason for anyone to think or believe that baptism into Christ is apart from the cross of Christ.
First Lutheran transgender bishop, Megan Rohrer
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BJ Bear
Well-known member
Listen to the Aposilic winess. Baptism does now save you through the resurrection of Christ, 1 Peter 3. You have been united with Christ in your baptism, Romans 6. In bapyism you have put on Christ, Galatians 3, etv., etc.
The bottom line is baptism into Christ is not apart from the cross of Christ and its gifts and benefits can only be received through faith. It is just as Mark 16:16 says since there is no relative pronoun in that passage which turns believed away from baptized.
Bonnie
Super Member
Of course it is--that is why Peter connected holy baptism to Christ's resurrection. Baptism is also pure grace. It is one means of grace--the Lord's Supper is another and so is faith.
We live from faith to faith, as the saving grace is found in Jesus, not the ordinances!
Many of us see that not AS water baptism, but as spiritual baptism, where the sinner is now placed in Christ and the Body thru faith!
Not sacramental grace though. in the sense of any saving grace!
Nic
Well-known member
Nic
Well-known member
Yet you believe the baptism instituted by Jesus himself is another baptism outside the clear declaration that there is one baptism. Jesus must of been having an off day, maybe he was dehydrated and confused? Clearly I'm being facetious, so how do you account for Jesus' befuddling command? How do you make sense of it?
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Nic
Well-known member
So baptism with water as scripture prescribes does what scripture says it does? Yes or no, why?
Nic
Well-known member
I didn't ask anything about this, why would answer like this when we were talking about baptism?! 🧐
Do I need to re-post what you said about *Baptism* and how I answered and inquired about *Baptism* or can you please scroll up and address what I asked about *Baptism*, please?
Thank you.
Nic
Well-known member
Hello YeshuaFan,
Clearly you believe there exists reasons why what scripture says about baptism isn't what it appears to be. The overriding point you continue to wish to make is faith alone saves. That's what we believe too. So perhaps you believe I've presented a false dichotomy, if so would you please carefully illustrate as to why you think so? Thank you.
Nic🙂
Bonnie
Super Member
But we can receive Jesus' grace THROUGH the sacraments of Holy Baptism and the Lord's Supper. They are a means of grace, along with the word of God, when we believe.
Bonnie
Super Member
Except no one can say "Jesus is Lord" WITHOUT the Holy Spirit. By the time someone can call upon Jesus as their Lord, the Holy Spirit has already worked saving faith in that person's heart.
In Acts 2, Peter's listeners were beginning to believe in Jesus Christ via his Gospel message to them, so that they were "cut to the heart" by it, feeling the HS convicting them of their sins. Hence, why they asked "What should we do?" And then Peter told them to be baptized for the forgiveness of sins and then they would receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. (Paraphrased)
BJ Bear
Well-known member
Yes, we are aware that people generally have reasons for what they believe and say. Please consider the following:
"Then He [the risen LORD] said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me.” And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures.
Then He said to them, “Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day, and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And you are witnesses of these things." Luke 24:44-48 --NKJV
When the risen Lord opened the minds of the disciples to understand Scripture it wasn't the words on the scrolls that changed. So when the risen Lord told them that, "repentance and the forgiveness of sins would be preached in His name beginning at Jerusalem," the only right way to understand that and preach it is, "repent and be baptized in His name for the forgiveness of sins." It is just as Peter said on Pentecost.
Why is that the only right way to preach it? It is because of who Jesus is and what Scripture says He would do.
"Then I [the LORD GOD] will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them." Ezekiel 36:25-27 --NKJV
Some people read that and try to look back to the law, the types, but it was pointing to the future reality. The NT demonstrates this because after Herod usurped the throne everyone and their brother was looking for the Messiah. For example, part of the questioning of John included, "Why do you baptize if you are not...?"
Three take aways from the above is that the failure to believe, teach, and confess that baptism in the name of Jesus, the LORD GOD, is for the forgiveness of sins despises and denies Christ and all that baptism into Him freely gives. The second is that the one baptism from the one Lord God for the forgiveness of sins, etc., was to be believed before, during, and after the incarnation. And the third is that it is a basis of there being no relative pronoun in Mark 16:16 which turns believed away from baptized. He who believed and was baptized shall be saved.
That is the Prophetic and Apostolic witness in this regard.
We have all spiritual blessings in Christ, received by and thru faith....
The 0rdiances may impart some gracing, but not effectually saving grace!
The water baptism spoken of there was into Jesus, as He Himself is the source of the remission of sins!