First Lutheran transgender bishop, Megan Rohrer

YeshuaFan

Well-known member
Sarcasm to follow:
Wasn't it this same Jesus who gave us this baptism? You know, the Deity himself, Second Persona of the Trinity, God and all, the Son of Man in the flesh (incarnate), the Son of God, through Him all things were created, that one and the same Jesus? Besides Jesus' office is that of saving, I won't tell him how to do his job.
End of sarcasm.
Serious inquiry follows:
But what is it about the preached gospel that saves? Is there either a component, reaction or both that must take place in order for Jesus to save a person? If so, what are these things? Also please consider how much or how little of the Gospel message is effective (saves to the uttermost) as you understand things?
End of serious inquiry.
Thanks.

Nic🙂
Jesus gave to us water baptism, but was to be unto believers in Him !
 

Nic

Well-known member
No, its God Himself who does that!
I feel like saying your "slip" [Nestorianism] is showing or some such. Last I checked, Jesus was God.

As for John, see Luke 3:3
And he went into all the region around the Jordan, proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

Was John's baptism from God or from men?
 

YeshuaFan

Well-known member
I feel like saying your "slip" [Nestorianism] is showing or some such. Last I checked, Jesus was God.

As for John, see Luke 3:3
And he went into all the region around the Jordan, proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

Was John's baptism from God or from men?
John was not saying that dipped in the water saved, but that repentance and faith in coming messiah would!
 

Nic

Well-known member
John was not saying that dipped in the water saved, but that repentance and faith in coming messiah would!
So are you saying that both John and Jesus baptisms, neither or something else not yet revealed or revealed elsewhere in scripture, that was also coincidentally called "baptism" that forgave sins? Or no baptisms whatsoever forgave sins, period?
 

Bonnie

Super Member
Agree with you that a saved person should be water baptized, but not required to get saved!
I never wrote that it was an absolute requirement to be saved. But why would anyone who believes turn down this means of grace, if he or she has a chance to partake of it? Even after the great HS came to Cornelius and friends and family, Peter said they should be baptized. But if a believer dies before having a chance to be baptized or is prevented from doing so, he or she is still saved.
 

YeshuaFan

Well-known member
So are you saying that both John and Jesus baptisms, neither or something else not yet revealed or revealed elsewhere in scripture, that was also coincidentally called "baptism" that forgave sins? Or no baptisms whatsoever forgave sins, period?
Its the Person that one is being water baptized in the name of that saves us!
 

YeshuaFan

Well-known member
I never wrote that it was an absolute requirement to be saved. But why would anyone who believes turn down this means of grace, if he or she has a chance to partake of it? Even after the great HS came to Cornelius and friends and family, Peter said they should be baptized. But if a believer dies before having a chance to be baptized or is prevented from doing so, he or she is still saved.
We both agree that a Chrsitian should partake of water Baptism, its just I do not see that as the means by which and thru we get saved!
Not the entry way into salvation....
 

Nic

Well-known member
Its the Person that one is being water baptized in the name of that saves us!
How odd! And yet baptism in your view as seemingly demonstrated in scripture by John's and Jesus' baptism have nothing to do with it. Can you document for me the first teacher and accompany lesson that stated baptism is an inward sign of an outward reality? I'd like to see that sort of record if you don't mind. I've heard for all practical purposes it was very late arriving to the Christian understanding, can you demonstrate otherwise? If it is a recent development, how is this any different than the Roman Church which admits to doing the same?

Thanks again!
Nic🙂
 

BMS

Well-known member
However it was passing through water ( the sea was parted) that saved the Israelites from Pharoah's Egyptian army. The Egyptian army was destroyed in the water and so the Israelites were finally free from those who enslaved them. It was a complete cut off. God was also present in the cloud when the Israelites were going through the desert. When the cloud rested over them they rested and when the cloud moved ahead they moved ahead. Here is NT of Jesus Christ concealed in the OT. Baptism IS water AND Spirit.
 

BJ Bear

Well-known member
Its the Person that one is being water baptized in the name of that saves us!
If you really believe that then why don't you believe how He says He saves you? Baptism does now save you through the resurrection of Christ, see 1 Peter 3:21-22.
 

BJ Bear

Well-known member
I never wrote that it was an absolute requirement to be saved. But why would anyone who believes turn down this means of grace, if he or she has a chance to partake of it? Even after the great HS came to Cornelius and friends and family, Peter said they should be baptized. But if a believer dies before having a chance to be baptized or is prevented from doing so, he or she is still saved.
Yes, but the Apostle Peter believed the real Jesus, the One who lived and walked talked with him and the other disciples, rather than a Jesus of the imagination.
 

YeshuaFan

Well-known member
How odd! And yet baptism in your view as seemingly demonstrated in scripture by John's and Jesus' baptism have nothing to do with it. Can you document for me the first teacher and accompany lesson that stated baptism is an inward sign of an outward reality? I'd like to see that sort of record if you don't mind. I've heard for all practical purposes it was very late arriving to the Christian understanding, can you demonstrate otherwise? If it is a recent development, how is this any different than the Roman Church which admits to doing the same?

Thanks again!
Nic🙂
The principle as always been saved form faith to faith!
 

YeshuaFan

Well-known member
Yes, but the Apostle Peter believed the real Jesus, the One who lived and walked talked with him and the other disciples, rather than a Jesus of the imagination.
If God allows one person to get saved apart from water Baptism, means not an absolute requirement!
 
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