Bonnie
Super Member
But not ONLY through baptism. Did you miss that?
First Lutheran transgender bishop, Megan Rohrer
- Thread starter Authentic Nouveau
- Start date
Your answer was 'irrelevant' Its not irrelevant since transgender and lgbt is the subject of the thread. So same question to you again, answer the question.
Good for her, so she should ignore you. I have asked you twice a question concerning the subject of the thread and twice you have declined to answer, so if you wish other people to answer your off topic question then first you need to answer my on topic question.
<AMY have been water Baptized. but all they got from it was wet!
BJ Bear
Well-known member
Sure, but before you read the answer for the sake of argument consider that what the Bible says is actually true, that is, the Apostles and disciples didn't use cleverly devised fables or tales when they proclaimed the power of His coming.
The answer is whoever does not believe baptism into Him saves will be condemned. How do we know? The gospel of Jesus Christ includes that He was baptizing before his crucifixion and resurrection, See John 1:33.
Standing before God in your own righteousness isn't going to go well for anyone who does so..
BJ Bear
Well-known member
That is only your interpretation. What was the apostolic witness to both of them? Were they baptized for the forgiveness of sins or did some Christless know nothing say, "You're saved so go about your business or come and perform in our religious kibuki theater to make a public proclamation of your faith by being baptized?"
Wrong. You're adding your own agenda to God's Word.
New International Version
but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
New Living Translation
But anyone who refuses to believe will be condemned.
English Standard Version
but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
Berean Study Bible
but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
Berean Literal Bible
but the one having disbelieved will be condemned.
King James Bible
ut he that believeth not shall be damned.
New King James Version
but he who does not believe will be condemned.
New American Standard Bible
but the one who has not believed will be condemned.
NASB 1995
but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.
NASB 1977
but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.
Amplified Bible
but he who has not believed will be condemned.
Christian Standard Bible
but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
American Standard Version
but he that disbelieveth shall be condemned.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
and whoever does not believe is condemned.”
Contemporary English Version
But anyone who refuses to believe me will be condemned.
Douay-Rheims Bible
but he that believeth not shall be condemned.
English Revised Version
but he that disbelieveth shall be condemned.
Good News Translation
whoever does not believe will be condemned.
GOD'S WORD® Translation
but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
International Standard Version
but whoever doesn't believe will be condemned.
Literal Standard Version
and he who has not believed will be condemned.
NET Bible
but the one who does not believe will be condemned.
New Heart English Bible
but he who disbelieves will be condemned.
Weymouth New Testament
but he who disbelieves will be condemned.
World English Bible
but he who disbelieves will be condemned.
Young's Literal Translation
and he who hath not believed, shall be condemned.
So, where do you see anything about baptism there?
Actually, John 1:33 says Christ baptizes with the Holy Spirit, not with water for salvation.
I agree. That's why you need to repent now.
Great, so you believe "that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’[a] 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’[b]? 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.” - NIV
If so how come you won't say amen to what is relevant to the topic. Or do you just believe what you wish to believe?
Bonnie
Super Member
Sorry, but I told you I never saw where you talked about this on here, and I even used the search engine. I even asked you where you talked about this. But I already gave an answer about that: the HS can come to someone before OR after holy baptism. It is His call.
And how does God do this if you share the Catholic belief that water baptism is necessary for salvation?
Transgenderism isn't necessarily a mental illness, a confusion yes, but not a mental illness.
Thank you. Mike McK.
Bonnie
Super Member
I have said at least once on here that while baptism DOES NOW save us, it is not absolutely necessary for salvation, if a person has faith in Jesus Christ, but is unable to get baptized, or is prevented from doing so. But no one should despise this means of grace that Jesus Christ has given us, or reject it, if a person is able to receive it.
Shared altar / pulpit
What is achieved thru Holy Baptism is the forgiveness of sins. THAT is the work of God, not of man. Pouring water and saying the Baptismal words are not work. The forgiveness of sins IS, but THAT is the work of God. And it is God's work that saves us. I am seeking understanding of your...
forums.carm.org
Bottom of my post 106. You responded to this post, so you must have read it. I also wrote it in another post on the same thread.
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So, if baptism saves us, how are Paul and Cornelius saved before they were baptized?
Bonnie
Super Member
You figure it out. What did the HS work in their hearts, and by what?
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You're the one making two conflicting claims. Not my job to "figure out" your jumbled thinking.
Bonnie
Super Member
My thinking is anything but jumbled. My Lutheran friends would know what I am talking about.
When Cornelius, et. al., heard Peter preach the Gospel, what did the HS work in their hearts via that message?
When Jesus appeared so dramatically to Paul outside Damascus, and for the next 3 days, until Ananias restored his sight, what did the HS work in Paul's heart, from what Jesus told him?
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You made two conflicting statements, which you cannot explain, and you cannot answer a simple question.
So, is it the regeneration upon the preaching of the Gospel, or is it baptism?
The Bible doesn't reveal that and it's not for us to know. However, the text does say Paul received the Holy Spirit and, thus, was saved, BEFORE he was baptized.
Bonnie
Super Member
There is no conflict, except in your mind.
Both.
The Bible does not say directly, but we can certainly figure out from the context: when Cornelius. et.al., heard Peter preach the Gospel, what did the HS work in their hearts via that message? So they could believe?
When Jesus revealed Himself to Paul outside Damascus, so that Paul was blinded, and spent the next 3 days praying, what did the HS work in Paul's heart, via what Jesus had told him? Because I agree that both Cornelius and Paul were saved before they were baptized in water.
So, what was it that the HS worked in their hearts, via the messages they received?
Authentic Nouveau
Well-known member
This is the Lutherian board
It is in the Luther Bible.
15 Und er sprach zu ihnen: Gehet hin in alle Welt und prediget das Evangelium aller Kreatur.
16 Wer da glaubet und getauft wird, der wird selig werden; wer aber nicht glaubt, der wird verdammt werden.
17 Die Zeichen aber, die da folgen werden denen, die da glauben, sind die: in meinem Namen werden sie Teufel austreiben, mit neuen Zungen reden.
18 Schlangen vertreiben; und so sie etwas Tödliches trinken, wird's ihnen nicht schaden; auf die Kranken werden sie die Hände legen, so wird es besser mit ihnen werden.
19 Und der HERR, nachdem er mit ihnen geredet hatte, ward er aufgehoben gen Himmel und sitzt zur rechten Hand Gottes.
20 Sie aber gingen aus und predigten an allen Orten; und der HERR wirkte mit ihnen und bekräftigte das Wort durch mitfolgende Zeichen.