Firstborn as part of a group?

Zoro777

New Member
Hi all, I'm just wondering how Christians here would answer the jw objection that "firstborn of..." is connected with a group? So when Colossians 1 states Jesus is firstborn of all creation, they say Jesus is part of that creation He is "of"?

As an example I found this elsewhere in the group posted by a jw presumably?:

"Exodus 12:29: "And in the middle of the night, Yahweh struck all of the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh sitting on his throne to the firstborn of the captive who was in the prison house, and every firstborn of beasts." The "firstborn of Pharaoh" was still one of the children of Pharaoh, the "firstborn of the capitve" was still one of the children of the captive, the "firstborn of beasts" was still one of the beasts."
 

Fred

Well-known member

Their faulty view would mean that since Jesus is the firstborn of creation then creation is the parent of Jesus. The creation gave birth to Jesus. This is absurd.

1. prōtotokos in Colossians 1:15 does not teach the Lord Jesus was created.
a. Mounce's Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words: The description of Christ as the firstborn of all creation (Col. 1:15 ; cf. Heb. 1:6) refers not to his temporal beginnings but to his supremacy and honor (firstborn, page 255).
b. Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament: Based on Semantic Domains: The figurative meaning of prōtotokos in the messianic title prōtotokos pases ktiseos 'firstborn of all creation' (Col 1.15) may be interpreted as 'existing before all creation' (see 13.79) or 'existing superior to all creation' (see 87.47) (10.43, prōtotokos, page 117).

2. Colossians 1:16-17 teaches that the Lord Jesus is the Creator.
Since the Bible teaches that God alone is the Creator (Job 9:8; Isaiah 44:24) demonstrates the Lord Jesus is God.

3. In Hebrews 1:6 'firstborn' is used in reference to the Lord Jesus in association in which He is the proper recipient of worship - and since God alone is to be worshiped proves the Lord Jesus is God.
a. BDAG (3rd Edition): Citing Hebrews 1:6 it reads "of deity in monotheistic cult" (proskyneō, page 882).
b. See also what the JW's affirmed in the past:
https://forums.carm.org/threads/did-jesus-create-the-angels.940/page-24#post-647340
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
Hi all, I'm just wondering how Christians here would answer the jw objection that "firstborn of..." is connected with a group?

You shouldn't go knee jerk hunting for an objection to a claim but see if it is true first.

So when Colossians 1 states Jesus is firstborn of all creation, they say Jesus is part of that creation He is "of"?

Scripture says he is the "firstborn of many brothers." That's a group.

As an example I found this elsewhere in the group posted by a jw presumably?:

"Exodus 12:29: "And in the middle of the night, Yahweh struck all of the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh sitting on his throne to the firstborn of the captive who was in the prison house, and every firstborn of beasts." The "firstborn of Pharaoh" was still one of the children of Pharaoh, the "firstborn of the capitve" was still one of the children of the captive, the "firstborn of beasts" was still one of the beasts."
 

101G

Well-known member
Rev 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
find out who make all thing new, (the one who sits on the throned). then one will know if he's of his new creation.

PICJAG, 101G
 
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