Five months

Tallen

Well-known member
The deadness of wof continues as we now reach five months since the tally began. No wof participating in the forum or wof threads. Plenty of opportunity..., plenty of deadness from wof.
 
The deadness of wof continues as we now reach five months since the tally began. No wof participating in the forum or wof threads. Plenty of opportunity..., plenty of deadness from wof.
You're like Joe Biden saying inflation only went up .1% last month to 8.3%. Spinning the dead bones of the Reformers into something about WoF simply doesn't play out when the alive and well WoFers are out there spreading their fake-it-til-you-make-it philosophy. Just because they are not on a hidden, below average site like this doesn't say anything about their deadness or aliveness. :LOL: edit image violation
 
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You're like Joe Biden saying inflation only went up .1% last month to 8.3%. Spinning the dead bones of the Reformers into something about WoF simply doesn't play out when the alive and well WoFers are out there spreading their fake-it-til-you-make-it philosophy. Just because they are not on a hidden, below average site like this doesn't say anything about their deadness or aliveness.
It's more FUN to play with the Roman Catholics!!!
 
You're like Joe Biden saying inflation only went up .1% last month to 8.3%. Spinning the dead bones of the Reformers into something about WoF simply doesn't play out when the alive and well WoFers are out there spreading their fake-it-til-you-make-it philosophy. Just because they are not on a hidden, below average site like this doesn't say anything about their deadness or aliveness. :LOL:
Must be there are no "Reformers" out there spreading their philosophy. ?

Seems to me that Reformers out number wof on this below average site. ?
 
Must be there are no "Reformers" out there spreading their philosophy. ?
So you agree Reformed (theology?) is only a philosophy and not a theology, or you would have argued for that word ??

Seems to me that Reformers out number wof on this below average site. ?
This is true. Because there are zero WoFer, and you make one Reformer - I can quit counting any Reformers. You win the "out number". ??
 
And yet Heb 11:1, Romans 10:17, and Mark 11:22-24 are still in the Bible.

Nobody. They say what they say, and regardless of distortions, and false applications, they still say what they say.

Let's start with Romans 10:17. Yes, it is in the Bible. That verse is speaking of the faith required for salvation. No distortion.

8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes in Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; 13 for “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

14 How then are they to call on Him in whom they have not believed? How are they to believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how are they to hear without a preacher? 15 But how are they to preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news of good things!”

How about Hebrews 11:1? Yes, it is in the Bible. Notice here. Faith is reliance upon God. Every person listed here relied upon God. No distortion here.

1 Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. 2 For by it the people of old received their commendation. 3 By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.

4 By faith Abel offered to God a more acceptable sacrifice than Cain, through which he was commended as righteous, God commending him by accepting his gifts. And through his faith, though he died, he still speaks. 5 By faith Enoch was taken up so that he should not see death, and he was not found, because God had taken him. Now before he was taken he was commended as having pleased God. 6 And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him. 7 By faith Noah, being warned by God concerning events as yet unseen, in reverent fear constructed an ark for the saving of his household. By this he condemned the world and became an heir of the righteousness that comes by faith.

8 By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to a place that he was to receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. 9 By faith he went to live in the land of promise, as in a foreign land, living in tents with Isaac and Jacob, heirs with him of the same promise. 10 For he was looking forward to the city that has foundations, whose designer and builder is God. 11 By faith Sarah herself received power to conceive, even when she was past the age, since she considered him faithful who had promised. 12 Therefore from one man, and him as good as dead, were born descendants as many as the stars of heaven and as many as the innumerable grains of sand by the seashore.

13 These all died in faith, not having received the things promised, but having seen them and greeted them from afar, and having acknowledged that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. 14 For people who speak thus make it clear that they are seeking a homeland. 15 If they had been thinking of that land from which they had gone out, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared for them a city.

17 By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was in the act of offering up his only son, 18 of whom it was said, “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” 19 He considered that God was able even to raise him from the dead, from which, figuratively speaking, he did receive him back. 20 By faith Isaac invoked future blessings on Jacob and Esau. 21 By faith Jacob, when dying, blessed each of the sons of Joseph, bowing in worship over the head of his staff. 22 By faith Joseph, at the end of his life, made mention of the exodus of the Israelites and gave directions concerning his bones.

23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hidden for three months by his parents, because they saw that the child was beautiful, and they were not afraid of the king's edict. 24 By faith Moses, when he was grown up, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter, 25 choosing rather to be mistreated with the people of God than to enjoy the fleeting pleasures of sin. 26 He considered the reproach of Christ greater wealth than the treasures of Egypt, for he was looking to the reward. 27 By faith he left Egypt, not being afraid of the anger of the king, for he endured as seeing him who is invisible. 28 By faith he kept the Passover and sprinkled the blood, so that the Destroyer of the firstborn might not touch them.

29 By faith the people crossed the Red Sea as on dry land, but the Egyptians, when they attempted to do the same, were drowned. 30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell down after they had been encircled for seven days. 31 By faith Rahab the prostitute did not perish with those who were disobedient, because she had given a friendly welcome to the spies.

32 And what more shall I say? For time would fail me to tell of Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, of David and Samuel and the prophets— 33 who through faith conquered kingdoms, enforced justice, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, 34 quenched the power of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, were made strong out of weakness, became mighty in war, put foreign armies to flight. 35 Women received back their dead by resurrection. Some were tortured, refusing to accept release, so that they might rise again to a better life. 36 Others suffered mocking and flogging, and even chains and imprisonment. 37 They were stoned, they were sawn in two,[a] they were killed with the sword. They went about in skins of sheep and goats, destitute, afflicted, mistreated— 38 of whom the world was not worthy—wandering about in deserts and mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.

39 And all these, though commended through their faith, did not receive what was promised, 40 since God had provided something better for us, that apart from us they should not be made perfect.

Finally, Mark 11:22-24. Yes, it is in the Bible. No distortion here. The biggest problem with people like you is that you make it an open ticket for anything you have "faith" for. My objection is that very point. God does not honor faith for something you want and God doesn't want you to have it... Like I have said in the past, God answers our prayers of faith with, Yes, No, and wait...


20 As they passed by in the morning, they saw the fig tree withered away to its roots. 21 And Peter remembered and said to him, “Rabbi, look! The fig tree that you cursed has withered.” 22 And Jesus answered them, “Have faith in God. 23 Truly, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, ‘Be taken up and thrown into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that what he says will come to pass, it will be done for him. 24 Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask in prayer, believe that you have received[c] it, and it will be yours. 25 And whenever you stand praying, forgive, if you have anything against anyone, so that your Father also who is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.”[d]
 
Let's start with Romans 10:17. Yes, it is in the Bible. That verse is speaking of the faith required for salvation. No distortion.
So, forget about all that elect stuff and the TULIP thing, right? Faith is required. (I agree.)

How about Hebrews 11:1? Yes, it is in the Bible. Notice here. Faith is reliance upon God. Every person listed here relied upon God. No distortion here.
We have a different view of faith. My bible says that God measures out faith to each individual. It is not something you muster. Hebrews 11:1 is not in any way a promise that what you have faith in will happen (for the faith that God gives, you must act upon), but rather an indication that what you hoped for is just out of sight.

Hope and faith are not the same. Many people hope and think it is themselves being in faith.

My wife is dead.*

Finally, Mark 11:22-24. Yes, it is in the Bible. No distortion here. The biggest problem with people like you is that you make it an open ticket for anything you have "faith" for. My objection is that very point. God does not honor faith for something you want and God doesn't want you to have it... Like I have said in the past, God answers our prayers of faith with, Yes, No, and wait...
I still can't find a verse that says "No, and wait..." Been looking for some 15+ years since being on CARM. But I do agree that Mark 11:24 is not a blank check -- well, at least for you and me and all those who stop by here. We are too removed from the day when Jesus walked with the disciples and was able to convey true use of faith to them. We have substituted that with hope.

Remember that the disciples went out and worked miracles that you hope for today. They grew fingers back on broken hands. They could move a piece of sand on a window sill. They put legs back under the lame. They had the Mark 11:24 faith and knew how to wield it. Jesus spoke words and he meant exactly what he said: "does not doubt in his heart...believes that what he says will happen....whatever you pray and ask for" (yes, open ticket) "believe that you have received...and it will be yours."

I don't believe there are many (if at all) today that have this kind of faith. We have hope.

And my wife is dead.*


* don't get all apologetic; not the point and I don't need that here.
 
So, forget about all that elect stuff and the TULIP thing, right? Faith is required. (I agree.)

Faith is a gift from God. We must activate that gift. That fits in nicely with election.

We have a different view of faith. My bible says that God measures out faith to each individual. It is not something you muster. Hebrews 11:1 is not in any way a promise that what you have faith in will happen (for the faith that God gives, you must act upon), but rather an indication that what you hoped for is just out of sight.

Hope and faith are not the same. Many people hope and think it is themselves being in faith.

My wife is dead.*

Feel free to look at BDAG or any other reputable Greek source. The Greek word translated faith in this passage means "reliance upon God". I have posted this passage numerous times with that evidence.

I still can't find a verse that says "No, and wait..." Been looking for some 15+ years since being on CARM. But I do agree that Mark 11:24 is not a blank check -- well, at least for you and me and all those who stop by here. We are too removed from the day when Jesus walked with the disciples and was able to convey true use of faith to them. We have substituted that with hope.

Remember that the disciples went out and worked miracles that you hope for today. They grew fingers back on broken hands. They could move a piece of sand on a window sill. They put legs back under the lame. They had the Mark 11:24 faith and knew how to wield it. Jesus spoke words and he meant exactly what he said: "does not doubt in his heart...believes that what he says will happen....whatever you pray and ask for" (yes, open ticket) "believe that you have received...and it will be yours."

I don't believe there are many (if at all) today that have this kind of faith. We have hope.

As has been said before, the Disciples (Apostles) were given special gifts. Clearly those gifts faded away as the Church was established. An example could be Paul had all the gifts. Yet, he couldn't heal Timothy's stomach ailment. Instead, he advised drinking wine.


And my wife is dead.*

* don't get all apologetic; not the point and I don't need that here.

I am glad you brought this up. Your wife died because she had bad teaching and placed her faith in her faith. Having faith in something without power is not going to heal you. It was partially your fault for not making your wife get treatment.

Notice this passage. Adam was with Eve when the serpent tempted her... He didn't step in to help her.

He said to the woman, “Did God actually say, ‘You[a] shall not eat of any tree in the garden’?” 2 And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden, 3 but God said, ‘You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.’” 4 But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. 5 For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” 6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate, and she also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate.

When my wife was going through Childbirth, she was in extreme pain. She was afraid to get an epidural because it would look like she lacked faith. I made her take the epidural. When it came to her getting cancer, there was no issue about faith. We dug our heals in, relied on God, and got the necessary treatments.
 
Feel free to look at BDAG or any other reputable Greek source. The Greek word translated faith in this passage means "reliance upon God". I have posted this passage numerous times with that evidence.
This is true.

"Faith is a reaction of a believer in relation to the faithfulness of YHWH. He is always the cause of faith in Him from the believer, because as we have seen in the previous chapter, He is faithful. Therefore, the believer responds to God’s faithfulness and it is because of His faithfulness that He causes the believer to have faith. “As a comment on our exposition of the ruling meaning of “faith” in Scripture, we may note that this precisely corresponds to its meaning in common life, where, for once that the word means anything else, it means “reliance” a hundred times. Such correspondence between religious terms (in Scripture) and the meaning of the same words in common life, will be found to be invariable. Faith means that YHWH’s people become reliant upon Him. It is never linked to any idea that man is to cause his own faith to emerge from his own knowledge or effort. But it always to be understood as fruit of His faithfulness. This relationship with YHWH that results in this trust is called fruit of the Spirit in Galatians 5:22." The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.” (Gal 5:22-23, KJV)

The fruit of the Spirit is... reliance upon YHWH.
 
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Let's start with Romans 10:17. Yes, it is in the Bible. That verse is speaking of the faith required for salvation.
Faith is Faith. limiting Rom 10:17 to ONLY "saving faith" is YOUR private interpretation.
How about Hebrews 11:1? Yes, it is in the Bible. Notice here. Faith is reliance upon God.
Specifically Reliance on God's WORD to you (remember Abram??). That's the ONLY THING that you can BASE BIBLICAL FAITH ON.

If you're going to uproot your entire family, sell your house, and leave town without knowing where you're going, it HAD BETTER be based on God's WORD TO YOU.

I'm in Texas only because GOD told me to take a job here (even though neither the job, nor the company made any sense at all, and every particle of common sense I had told me I was insane to do it). 33 years later, it proved to be exactly what I should have done, and it was all based on NOTHING other than God's WORD to me. In my OWN wisdom I'd have gotten on the plane back to Michigan, signed the Texas idiots off, and kept on looking (I had other offers).

Finally, Mark 11:22-24. Yes, it is in the Bible. No distortion here. The biggest problem with people like you is that you make it an open ticket for anything you have "faith" for.
TRUE statement. however since BIBLICAL FAITH arises from Rom 10:17, then if God speaks the Word, then you can take it to the bank.

The only REAL PROBLEM with toxic WoF is that their "FAITH" is actually spelled with a "P" (presumption), and isn't "Biblical FAITH" at all. There are no guarantees in "presumption" - it's nothing but "superheated hope" based on nothing.

One DOESN'T "Have Faith", by PRETENDING to have faith. It ALWAYS starts with God.
My objection is that very point. God does not honor faith for something you want and God doesn't want you to have it... Like I have said in the past, God answers our prayers of faith with, Yes, No, and wait...
And of course "our prayers of faith" 99 time out of 100 aren't "Prayers of FAITH" at all. They have NO "SUBSTANCE", and are evidence of NOTHING.

Your cite gives the conditions under which the passage works: "Truly, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, ‘Be taken up and thrown into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that what he says will come to pass, it will be done for him.

Toxic WoF teaches its victims to PRETEND that that they " have no doubt", and to keep their "spoken profession" clean of any doubt - when they're actually FILLED WITH DOUBT since there's no "SUBSTANCE" in their belief. Just bucket loads of "Presumption" egged on by false teachers. "IF YOU DO THIS, GOD WILL DO THAT"

AND OF COURSE!!! When the thing you "Had Faith FOR" DOESN'T HAPPEN, it's always YOUR FAULT for not "playing the positive profession game" consistently enough. HOPEFULLY your "faith" wasn't for someone's HEALING. When they die anyway, it's devastating - particularly when your WoF Church accuses YOU of killing them with your doubt.
 
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