For anyone who thinks the left are the racists.

Torin

Well-known member
@Whateverman, you would probably find the book At the Hands of Persons Unknown interesting. It's a bit off the beaten path - a scholarly study of the history of lynching in the Southern United States.

Lynching was relatively rare during slavery (because slaves were valuable property), but once slavery was abolished there were hundreds of lynchings annually as Southern whites sought to keep blacks "in their place." Those gradually petered out, ending (thus far) with Mr. Byrd's misfortunes. Many lynchings had the complicity of Southern white police officers and the courts (and the public).

Apologies if you already knew all of this, I just find the history kind of interesting to talk about, albeit morbid.

As far as your putative solution, I would also to see black communities helped out so that they can flourish. However, this is because I think it's in my self interest for there to be more flourishing and productive people in the world of any race that I can trade with and befriend and so on. It's an investment, rather than a way of making up for some sort of collective guilt that I don't think I have earned.

Being a racist just cuts you off from all of the values that rational people of that race have to offer you. Like, if you're racist against black people, you're automatically cut off from all of the material and spiritual values that the black people around you have to offer you, for no reason. There is no beneficiary of racism.

(As a final aside: I don't necessarily want "tax money" involved in this process of helping out the black community. However, that's because I oppose taxation in general on moral grounds, which is a different conversation and quite off topic here.)
 

HillsboroMom

Active member
One could argue the most recent "lynching" was about a year ago, when a police officer knelt on a black man's neck for 9 minutes.

The only difference is he's on trial right now.

Will he be acquitted? Have we learned anything?
 

Whateverman

Well-known member
One could argue the most recent "lynching" was about a year ago, when a police officer knelt on a black man's neck for 9 minutes.

The only difference is he's on trial right now.

Will he be acquitted? Have we learned anything?
I think this trial is both pivotal and historic. The fact that we're getting a pretty unobstructed view to the proceedings is important and helpful, because the American law enforcement system is on trial - and I'm pretty sure everyone realizes this.

To answer your question, whether we've learned anything or not will depend entirely on the verdict. The prosecution so far has laid out an air-tight case. I'm curious to see how the defense is going to respond.

ps. even if Chauvin is found guilty, it's not a guarantee that we'll have learned anything permanently, though.
 

Authentic Nouveau

Well-known member
As soon as we accept that America's white racist history was still lynching black people as recently as 1968, the sooner America will come to terms with the fact that racism in this country against African Americans by white people is properly in a different category than the others.

Yes: all races are capable of (and do in fact exhibit) racism against other races. Pretending that this makes racism everyone's problem equally in this country is pure, apologetic fiction.

EDIT: Ooh, I take that back. Last lynching was 19-freekin-81.

EDIT2: over the long run, you're right. We just need to treat racism as bad, regardless of who exhibits it. The problem, though, is that there are still black and white people alive who saw violent racism against black people on a scale that only one other race in this country has had to deal with. This means it's waaaaaaay too soon to just intone "Racism's bay-ad, m'kay?"

You support lynchings if you vote Democrate.

"Just going to leave this fact here 4,743 people were lynched in The United States between 1882-1968. 3,446 of these people were African American. 1,297 of these people were White REPUBLICANS. The lynchings were performed by WHITE DEMOCRATS."
 

Authentic Nouveau

Well-known member
15 long years of them being buddies. No tricks needed.
No proof?
So if he was a buddy, why did he kick the Democrate pedo out of the party for hitting on a girl?
Bill Clinton and predator Joe hits on girls.

Why was Ghislaine seated at Chelsea Clinton's wedding front row?
Why was Hillary grinning ear to ear at President Trumps wedding to Melania? Is Hillary a closet conservative?
 

HillsboroMom

Active member
I think of lynching as premeditated. Can you show premeditation in Chauvin's case?
That's a good point.

I don't think he woke up that morning thinking "I'm gonna kill me a N***** today." (Though, he may have.... I'm just saying we don't have any evidence of that.)

However, once he had Floyd in custody, he made the CHOICE to put his knee on his neck. SEVERAL TIMES during that period, people told him to stop, and each time, he made the CHOICE not to stop. Bystanders pleaded with him to stop. They said, "He can't breathe." "You're killing him." "Stop." Floyd called out for his mother. He had 569 chances to stop.

I will grant that the first action, kneeling on his neck, was not "premeditated."

After that, he premeditated 568 times to kill Floyd.
 

Faithoverbelief

Well-known member
No proof?
So if he was a buddy, why did he kick the Democrate pedo out of the party for hitting on a girl?
Bill Clinton and predator Joe hits on girls.

Why was Ghislaine seated at Chelsea Clinton's wedding front row?
Why was Hillary grinning ear to ear at President Trumps wedding to Melania? Is Hillary a closet conservative?
He booted Epstein for undermining a deal. Trump was at the Clintons wedding good buddies.
 

Authentic Nouveau

Well-known member
So racist liberal far left tell us how terrible the Georgia voting bill is for Blacks. Terrible racist bill.
So they want MLB to boycott and move ALL star game. Their handlers are racist.

Today the chubby sista who ran for Governor just figgered out moving the game hurts blacks.
Huge events help street venders, food trucks, restaurants, ticket takers, parking attendants gas stations. The blu collar workers get 20 hours in on the side, some get more overtime.
 

Torin

Well-known member
That's a good point.
Thanks.
I don't think he woke up that morning thinking "I'm gonna kill me a N***** today." (Though, he may have.... I'm just saying we don't have any evidence of that.)
Okay, but that by itself differentiates his case from cases like the Byrd lynching I mentioned earlier.

However, once he had Floyd in custody, he made the CHOICE to put his knee on his neck. SEVERAL TIMES during that period, people told him to stop, and each time, he made the CHOICE not to stop. Bystanders pleaded with him to stop. They said, "He can't breathe." "You're killing him." "Stop." Floyd called out for his mother. He had 569 chances to stop.

I will grant that the first action, kneeling on his neck, was not "premeditated."

After that, he premeditated 568 times to kill Floyd.
That would be a horrible murder, but not a lynching. Lynching is performed by a mob. If Floyd had been lynched, we would not have to speculate about the perpetrators' state of mind like this.
 

HillsboroMom

Active member
Lynching is performed by a mob.
Not always.

There have been lynchings performed by 2 or 3 people. I can't think of any performed by only 1 person, but I know of more than a few performed by pairs of people. 2 is not a mob.

But your point is taken: in order to support the "lynching" theory, we would have to prove that he set out to find a black person to kill. While that may have been the case, I don't think we could prove that, and certainly not beyond reasonable doubt.
 
H

HouOz

Guest
As soon as we accept that America's white racist history was still lynching black people as recently as 1968, the sooner America will come to terms with the fact that racism in this country against African Americans by white people is properly in a different category than the others.

Yes: all races are capable of (and do in fact exhibit) racism against other races. Pretending that this makes racism everyone's problem equally in this country is pure, apologetic fiction.

EDIT: Ooh, I take that back. Last lynching was 19-freekin-81.

EDIT2: over the long run, you're right. We just need to treat racism as bad, regardless of who exhibits it. The problem, though, is that there are still black and white people alive who saw violent racism against black people on a scale that only one other race in this country has had to deal with. This means it's waaaaaaay too soon to just intone "Racism's bay-ad, m'kay?"
Isolated incidences do not taint all "white people" living today.
Your mindset is precisely why we have an alleged white on black racism problem today.
Tell me with a straight face that black on white hatred is not a real thing. Honkies, crackers and the rest of it.
And the black on Asian attacks in recent months proves that black people are very much capable of racism just like I said.
Any notion that racism is not equally everyone's problem is pure naivete.
The number of survivors from those dark days is also vanishingly small.
Implying white people are more racist is totally irresponsible and the main catalyst we see today in the perceived surge of racism.
It's exactly like telling a lie over and over again - keep repeating it over and over again and to many it eventually seems like the truth.
But those like you love to beat that drum.
Just keep in mind that while ever you do, you're just feeding the problem.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Whateverman

Well-known member
Isolated incidences do not taint all "white people" living today.
Your mindset is precisely why we have an alleged white on black racism problem today.
Not my mindset, no.

Talk to some black people. Their mindset is far more relevant.
Tell me with a straight face that black on white hatred is not a real thing. Honkies, crackers and the rest of it.
And the black on Asian attacks in recent months proves that black people are very much capable of racism just like I said.
Any notion that racism is not equally everyone's problem is pure naivete.
If you're just going to ignore this country's institutionalized racism against African Americans - a racism that is beyond "well documented" - then you're sorta declaring yourself unwilling to be part of a reasonable conversation about this.

No, I don't think you have to agree with everything I believe in order to be reasonable. Still, you're pretending this country wasn't allowing black people to be killed with near impunity within living memory. That's not something that's gonna win you any friends with historians or the black community...
 

Magdalena

Well-known member
Not my mindset, no.

Talk to some black people. Their mindset is far more relevant.

If you're just going to ignore this country's institutionalized racism against African Americans - a racism that is beyond "well documented" - then you're sorta declaring yourself unwilling to be part of a reasonable conversation about this.

No, I don't think you have to agree with everything I believe in order to be reasonable. Still, you're pretending this country wasn't allowing black people to be killed with near impunity within living memory. That's not something that's gonna win you any friends with historians or the black community...
I’ve never had any problems being friends with the black people I know. And I’ve never heard them say they felt oppressed. In fact, they get pretty frustrated with other black people who claim they are.
 
H

HouOz

Guest
Not my mindset, no.

Talk to some black people. Their mindset is far more relevant.

If you're just going to ignore this country's institutionalized racism against African Americans - a racism that is beyond "well documented" - then you're sorta declaring yourself unwilling to be part of a reasonable conversation about this.

No, I don't think you have to agree with everything I believe in order to be reasonable. Still, you're pretending this country wasn't allowing black people to be killed with near impunity within living memory. That's not something that's gonna win you any friends with historians or the black community...
Most of the black people within my circle are good people and I have no problem with. There are those that look at you sideways - guilty of racism by association because you are an old white guy. There are few things worse than being seen as racist by default because of one's skin colour.
I am not ignorant of the history of racism in this country but I see the focus on it as a bit overblown in today's world and from my perspective it is not helping anything - in fact, the continual stirring is keeping tensions high and I see that as exacerbating the situation. Some of the attitudes I see from african americans toward white people are shocking - especially among the younger people who are being conditioned to believe it is worse than it actually is.
Now you might not like all I just said but it is the way the majority of middle aged white folk in this country perceive it.
Now I am not saying that we should not keep trying to improve ourselves as a people but let's keep it to a dull roar and include everybody in the conversation instead of pointing fingers at one group - that, is not going to win you any friends.
 

Whateverman

Well-known member
Most of the black people within my circle are good people and I have no problem with. There are those that look at you sideways - guilty of racism by association because you are an old white guy. There are few things worse than being seen as racist by default because of one's skin colour.
I am not ignorant of the history of racism in this country but I see the focus on it as a bit overblown in today's world and from my perspective it is not helping anything - in fact, the continual stirring is keeping tensions high and I see that as exacerbating the situation. Some of the attitudes I see from african americans toward white people are shocking - especially among the younger people who are being conditioned to believe it is worse than it actually is.
Now you might not like all I just said but it is the way the majority of middle aged white folk in this country perceive it.
Now I am not saying that we should not keep trying to improve ourselves as a people but let's keep it to a dull roar and include everybody in the conversation instead of pointing fingers at one group - that, is not going to win you any friends.
This is a reasonable discussion. Thank you.

I've mentioned this before here, but I worked in a lab in Quincy MA a few decades ago. The manager of the shipping department there was a black man by the name of Alan; I'm pasty-white. We hit it off, and I quickly learned that he played bass. When I told him I'm a drummer, we decided to jam together after work.

This involved driving my kit to his apartment in Jamaica Plains. The area was predominantly a black community, a bit run down but not a slum. Our band (Chrome) stayed together for two years, and it was a real learning experience for me. Firstly, I was the only non-black member of the band, and secondly, I got the stink-eye (and a few comments) quite a bit when I was in that apartment complex and at the store around the corner. Whether some of the people there were racist against me, or whether they just didn't like seeing me there doesn't really matter, because the effect of the two is the same thing.

So, I'll be the first person to tell you that I have first-hand experience with anti-white racism. Mild at best, but it was definitely a thing. And for me it was good to be on the other end of the equation; good to be reminded of what it's like, and why racism against any race is bad in general.

---

All I'll say is that until everyone who participated-in or experienced anti-black racism up to the 70s is dead, it's simply impossible to treat anti-black racism in this country as a peer to every other kind. It's going to take a generation for the memories to fade a bit, and that's when (IMHO) we might be able to start considering all racism as worthy of stamping out.
 
H

HouOz

Guest
This is a reasonable discussion. Thank you.

I've mentioned this before here, but I worked in a lab in Quincy MA a few decades ago. The manager of the shipping department there was a black man by the name of Alan; I'm pasty-white. We hit it off, and I quickly learned that he played bass. When I told him I'm a drummer, we decided to jam together after work.

This involved driving my kit to his apartment in Jamaica Plains. The area was predominantly a black community, a bit run down but not a slum. Our band (Chrome) stayed together for two years, and it was a real learning experience for me. Firstly, I was the only non-black member of the band, and secondly, I got the stink-eye (and a few comments) quite a bit when I was in that apartment complex and at the store around the corner. Whether some of the people there were racist against me, or whether they just didn't like seeing me there doesn't really matter, because the effect of the two is the same thing.

So, I'll be the first person to tell you that I have first-hand experience with anti-white racism. Mild at best, but it was definitely a thing. And for me it was good to be on the other end of the equation; good to be reminded of what it's like, and why racism against any race is bad in general.

---

All I'll say is that until everyone who participated-in or experienced anti-black racism up to the 70s is dead, it's simply impossible to treat anti-black racism in this country as a peer to every other kind. It's going to take a generation for the memories to fade a bit, and that's when (IMHO) we might be able to start considering all racism as worthy of stamping out.
There likely are a few dinosaurs still out there but they're gonna be old dinosaurs by now.
And that's not saying that no new racists have sprung up along the way but the question is, how to you get the racism out of people?
Sure you can fine them for racist comments, etc, but the stink eye will still be there.
The way I see it, this society atm is focusing on nothing but the negatives - some balance is needed and that means showing what we are capable of in the great strides we have already made.
Once that is established, then all parties may be more willing to continue to beat out the small brush fires as they appear.
 
Top