For I know the plans I have for you, declares the LORD, plans to prosper you...

TRINITARIAN Charles Stanley says... Scripture shows how each member of the Trinity fulfills His specific role, and it also reveals how those three roles interrelate. Let me express this idea in simple terms: The Father creates a plan, Jesus Christ implements the plan, and the Holy Spirit administers the plan.

Okay, so in this verse...

Jeremiah 29:11 NIV... For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the LORD, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.

WHO is saying "I know the plans I have for you"?

A) The PERSON God the Father
B) The PERSON God the Son
C) The PERSON God the Holy Ghost
D) The BEING of the Trinity
E) other, please explain

Charles Stanley would say A, the Father.

I say E, the LORD (Yahweh/GOD) is a "who" and is the one speaking.

Since I believe...

GOD is spirit and is the only one who is eternal. GOD is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal GOD is called God the Father.

GOD

English Bibles and I use the word GOD (with all caps) to signify the underlying Hebrew word is YHWH (a proper name) rather than Elohim (a title).
Exodus 23:17 ESV… Three times in the year shall all your males appear before the Lord GOD.

is spirit
John 4:24 ESV… God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.

and is the only one who is eternal...
Deuteronomy 33:27 ESV… The eternal God is your dwelling place, and underneath are the everlasting arms. And he thrust out the enemy before you and said, ‘Destroy.’
Isaiah 37:16 ESV… “O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, enthroned above the cherubim, you are the God, you alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth; you have made heaven and earth.

GOD is also in the universe as spirit
Genesis 1:2 ESV… The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

and as a human...
1 Timothy 3:16 ESV… Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.

GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God
Genesis 1:2 ESV… The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God
Luke 1:35 ESV… And the angel answered her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God.

and eternal GOD is called God the Father.
1 Corinthians 8:6 ESV… yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.
 
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WHO is saying "I know the plans I have for you"?

A) The PERSON God the Father
B) The PERSON God the Son
C) The PERSON God the Holy Ghost
D) The BEING of the Trinity
E) other, please explain
I think I'll say B(although worded differently). Jesus says in John 5:37

And the Father who sent me has himself borne witness about me. His voice you have never heard, his form you have never seen,

Therefore, I believe it was Jesus, The Living God/Word that is speaking. I would argue that anytime God is visible/audible(Word of the LORD, Glory of the LORD, Angel of the LORD) in the OT, it is Jesus/Son/Word/Living God.
 
I think I'll say B(although worded differently). Jesus says in John 5:37

And the Father who sent me has himself borne witness about me. His voice you have never heard, his form you have never seen,

Therefore, I believe it was Jesus, The Living God/Word that is speaking. I would argue that anytime God is visible/audible(Word of the LORD, Glory of the LORD, Angel of the LORD) in the OT, it is Jesus/Son/Word/Living God.

WHEN would you say "Jesus, The Living God/Word" came up with those plans?

I am trying to determine WHEN the Person speaking would have been called "Jesus" according to your view.
 
Jesus was given His name at His birth.

And WHEN would you say the Person came up with their plans for you?

My answer would be "before the foundation of the world". That is why my answer was the LORD (Yahweh/GOD).

John 17:24... Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
 

johnny guitar

Active member
And WHEN would you say the Person came up with their plans for you?

My answer would be "before the foundation of the world". That is why my answer was the LORD (Yahweh/GOD).

John 17:24... Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
Indeed, The Lord God: Father, Son, Holy Spirit.
 
Indeed, The Lord God: Father, Son, Holy Spirit.

What is your answer to the question in the OP...

WHO is saying "I know the plans I have for you"?

A) The PERSON God the Father
B) The PERSON God the Son
C) The PERSON God the Holy Ghost
D) The BEING of the Trinity
E) other, please explain

Charles Stanley would say A, the Father.

I say E, the LORD (Yahweh/GOD) is a "who" and is the one speaking.
 

johnny guitar

Active member
What is your answer to the question in the OP...

WHO is saying "I know the plans I have for you"?

A) The PERSON God the Father
B) The PERSON God the Son
C) The PERSON God the Holy Ghost
D) The BEING of the Trinity
E) other, please explain

Charles Stanley would say A, the Father.

I say E, the LORD (Yahweh/GOD) is a "who" and is the one speaking.
The Triune God.
 

johnny guitar

Active member
WHY does the Triune God say "let us" in Genesis 1:26...

But then says "I know" in Jeremiah 29:11?


It should either be "let us" and "we know"...

Or "let me" and "I know".
Because the plurality of Persons is emphasized in Gen. 1:26 and the singularity of God in Jer. 29:11.
 
I agree, before the foundation of the world. Whether it was the Son or the Father, it is essentially YHWH(a person) who made the plan.

I totally agree that it is essentially YHWH (a person) who made the plan.

I have started using the term "GOD" (in all caps) to refer to YHWH since English Bibles do and it is non-controversial. Some say YHWH should be spelled YHVH etc. and I try to avoid those debates.


Here is my updated statement of my beliefs...

GOD is spirit and is the only one who is eternal. GOD is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal GOD is called God the Father.

GOD

English Bibles and I use the word GOD (with all caps) to signify the underlying Hebrew word is YHWH (a proper name) rather than Elohim (a title).
Exodus 23:17 ESV… Three times in the year shall all your males appear before the Lord GOD.

is spirit
John 4:24 ESV… God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.

and is the only one who is eternal...
Deuteronomy 33:27 ESV… The eternal God is your dwelling place, and underneath are the everlasting arms. And he thrust out the enemy before you and said, ‘Destroy.’
Isaiah 37:16 ESV… “O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, enthroned above the cherubim, you are the God, you alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth; you have made heaven and earth.

GOD is also in the universe as spirit
Genesis 1:2 ESV… The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

and as a human...
1 Timothy 3:16 ESV… Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.

GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God
Genesis 1:2 ESV… The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God
Luke 1:35 ESV… And the angel answered her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God.

and eternal GOD is called God the Father.
1 Corinthians 8:6 ESV… yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.
 
I totally agree that it is essentially YHWH (a person) who made the plan.

I have started using the term "GOD" (in all caps) to refer to YHWH since English Bibles do and it is non-controversial. Some say YHWH should be spelled YHVH etc. and I try to avoid those debates.
Understood. It is a silly debate.

I personally use YHWH(or YAHWEH) because more people are familiar with it. Technically in English I guess it should be YHVH(Yod Heh Vav(or Waw) Heh), in Hebrew יהוה‎ and even more interesting if you look up the Hebrew Paleo alphabet for God's name.
 
Understood. It is a silly debate.

I personally use YHWH(or YAHWEH) because more people are familiar with it. Technically in English I guess it should be YHVH(Yod Heh Vav(or Waw) Heh), in Hebrew יהוה‎ and even more interesting if you look up the Hebrew Paleo alphabet for God's name.

I too used to use YHWH / Yahweh in order to use a proper name for God. It is more personal than using "God".

But as soon as you do, people will start debating if it should be YHVH or Jehovah or Yehovah, etc.

Even though when I use YHWH I am NOT arguing that is the correct way to spell it, I am just trying to refer to God with a proper name (a personal name).

So I have decided to take a lesson from English Bibles and started using "GOD" (all caps) to signify that the underlying Hebrew word is YHWH / YHVH (which is a proper name) rather than elohim (which is a title).

Exodus 23:17... Three times in the year all thy males shall appear before the Lord GOD.

And my concise statement of faith now becomes...

GOD is spirit and is the only one who is eternal. GOD is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal GOD is called God the Father.

(Where "GOD" is English for the Hebrew word "YHWH", and "God" is English for the Hebrew word "elohim".)
 
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Anthony

Member
TRINITARIAN Charles Stanley says... Scripture shows how each member of the Trinity fulfills His specific role, and it also reveals how those three roles interrelate. Let me express this idea in simple terms: The Father creates a plan, Jesus Christ implements the plan, and the Holy Spirit administers the plan.

Okay, so in this verse...

Jeremiah 29:11 NIV... For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the LORD, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.

WHO is saying "I know the plans I have for you"?

A) The PERSON God the Father
B) The PERSON God the Son
C) The PERSON God the Holy Ghost
D) The BEING of the Trinity
E) other, please explain

Charles Stanley would say A, the Father.

I say E, the LORD (Yahweh/GOD) is a "who" and is the one speaking.

Since I believe...

GOD is spirit and is the only one who is eternal. GOD is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal GOD is called God the Father.

GOD

English Bibles and I use the word GOD (with all caps) to signify the underlying Hebrew word is YHWH (a proper name) rather than Elohim (a title).
Exodus 23:17 ESV… Three times in the year shall all your males appear before the Lord GOD.

is spirit
John 4:24 ESV… God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.

and is the only one who is eternal...
Deuteronomy 33:27 ESV… The eternal God is your dwelling place, and underneath are the everlasting arms. And he thrust out the enemy before you and said, ‘Destroy.’
Isaiah 37:16 ESV… “O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, enthroned above the cherubim, you are the God, you alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth; you have made heaven and earth.

GOD is also in the universe as spirit
Genesis 1:2 ESV… The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

and as a human...
1 Timothy 3:16 ESV… Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.

GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God
Genesis 1:2 ESV… The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God
Luke 1:35 ESV… And the angel answered her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God.

and eternal GOD is called God the Father.
1 Corinthians 8:6 ESV… yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.
YHWH always presented Himself in duality of powers in the OT. Which means that He operates in totally two dimensions - transcendent and immanent creation.

Transcendent YHWH can't be seen, heard or approached but reveals Himself in a subordinate role in created realm as being sent as The Word from Him.

The One Who was seen, heard, touched is the same YHWH Who came in flesh - 1John 1:1-2; John 1:14.

He apparently appeared as The Messenger/Word of YHWH and many times interchanged with YHWH as The Father.

That's why we have scriptures like Isaiah 9:6, Isaiah 6:1; Exod 33:21-22, etc.

When John says no one has ever seen God - He meant transcendent YHWH as the visible form of YHWH has already appeared in flesh as The Son - representing Israel as the firstborn son - Exod 4:22-23; Hos 11:1, Mat 2:15, Rom 8:29.

The Father and The Son depict everlasting covenant relationship between YHWH and Israel. He is The Father of Israel as His firstborn.

Phil 2:5-7
For, let this mind be in you which was also in Messiah יהושע,

6 who, being in the form of Elohim, did not regard equality with Elohim a matter to be grasped,

7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a servant, and came to be in the likeness of men.

Paul understood from OT scriptures that The Messiah who appeared in likeness of men was the same YHWH Who was in visible form in equality to the invisible transcendent YHWH (Who has no form). But in His total submission as being in the form of a Servant Israel - He emptied Himself.

Another important issue is that God in His pure existence is not a Person nor Persons by any human comparison. The distinctions between The F, S and HS are not in their distinctive personality but in their distinctive dimensions - transcendent and immanent creation.

Trinity is a man made doctrine originated in fleshly minds.

There are some alleged contradictions raised by men as Peter, John and James heard The Father's voice on the holy mount - Luke 9:35 but that can be easily answered without any contradiction to John 5:37. But that's another subject.
 

Anthony

Member
Understood. It is a silly debate.

I personally use YHWH(or YAHWEH) because more people are familiar with it. Technically in English I guess it should be YHVH(Yod Heh Vav(or Waw) Heh), in Hebrew יהוה‎ and even more interesting if you look up the Hebrew Paleo alphabet for God's name.
More appropriate is Yahuah rather than Yaweh.

Nobody can dispute on Yahudah. Drop the 4th letter 'Daleth' and you get Yahuah. Strong's says it as Yehovah. Since it's Yah and never Yeh and letter 'Uau' is pronounced as 'OO' then it's YAHU. Proof is there in Strong's itself as how some Kings of Israel had 'Yahu' as prefix to their names:

H452

Original: אליּהוּ אליּה

Transliteration: 'êlı̂yâh 'êlı̂yâhû

Notice the prophet Elijah's Name appearing in two varients - EliYah and EliYahu (Yod hai Uau).

Original: יהוּדה

Transliteration: yehûdâh

Beginning with Yahu in Yahudah

Original: יהורם

Transliteration: yehôrâm

Again beginning with Yahu in Yahuram.

Original: ישׁעיהוּ ישׁעיה

Transliteration: yesha‛yâh yesha‛yâhûYashaYahu

So many examples. Vowel pointing as screwed up all pronunciation.

It's ok if anyone pronounced as Yehovah or Yahuah but certainly not YAWEH.
 
Are you saying someone who misunderstands and English pronunciation of God's "name" may not be saved?

You guys are proving my point and why I am now using the name GOD. :)

@Anthony... Do you have any objection to calling the eternal God by the name GOD?

Exodus 23:17... Three times in the year all thy males shall appear before the Lord GOD.
 
YHWH(A BEING)made the plan.
When you say that, it means you disagree with the OP then. Did the Father create the plan or did the being of YHWH create the plan?

EDIT: Also, when I say God is a person, this also means God is a being. I am not denying that, you are denying that God is a person.

The definition of being: the nature of essence of a person.
 
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