"For many are called, but few chosen." Matthew 22:14

ReverendRV

Well-known member
I'm sorry but the fact remains that as many as could be found were being urged to come to the Wedding. That means that the gate was open to all on the day of the wedding. In light of that, why would anyone want to or even have to do that which you suggested happened when the friend could just as well enter through the gate like everyone else?
Let's say the Gate was open to all who were invited; they declined. The Gate remained open for those who were not invited but compelled to enter. Thus the friend was a third party; someone who wasn't compelled by the King. A third category are those who crept in some other way...

And thank you for not belittling my discussion with you...
 
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Synergy

Well-known member
Let's say the Gate was open to all who were invited; they declined. The Gate remained open for those who were not invited but compelled to enter.
Mat 22:9 "Therefore go into the exits of the highways, and as many as you shall find, invite them to the marriage."

That means that they did their upmost to urge everyone to come to the wedding. Maybe a few people were missed but did show up on the wedding? At the entrance I'm sure that they were received with open arms in light of the fact that guests were urgently wanted.
Thus the friend was a third party; someone who wasn't compelled by the King. A third category are those who crept in some other way...
It's very hard to imagine a 3rd party in light of the urgency that was expressed by the King to call as many as could be found.
And thank you for not belittling my discussion with you...
The Bible proclaims the dignity of man and Arminianism strongly believes in that, as opposed to man being considered hopelessly depraved. We are totally incapable of saving ourselves but man is not totally devoid of conscience, heart, and mind.
 
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Reformedguy

Well-known member
Mat 22:9 "Therefore go into the exits of the highways, and as many as you shall find, invite them to the marriage."

That means that they did their upmost to urge everyone to come to the wedding. Maybe a few people were missed but did show up on the wedding? At the entrance I'm sure that they were received with open arms in light of the fact that guests were urgently wanted.

It's very hard to imagine a 3rd party in light of the urgency that was expressed by the King to call as many as could be found.

The Bible proclaims the dignity of man and Arminianism strongly believes in that, as opposed to man being considered hopelessly depraved. We are totally incapable of saving ourselves but man is not totally devoid of conscience, heart, and mind.
No one claims man is totally devoid of "conscience, heart, and mind."
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Mat 22:9 "Therefore go into the exits of the highways, and as many as you shall find, invite them to the marriage."

That means that they did their upmost to urge everyone to come to the wedding. Maybe a few people were missed but did show up on the wedding? At the entrance I'm sure that they were received with open arms in light of the fact that guests were urgently wanted.

It's very hard to imagine a 3rd party in light of the urgency that was expressed by the King to call as many as could be found.

The Bible proclaims the dignity of man and Arminianism strongly believes in that, as opposed to man being considered hopelessly depraved. We are totally incapable of saving ourselves but man is not totally devoid of conscience, heart, and mind.
It's not so hard to imagine there is a third party, as there is an runreached third party in the world who never hear of Christ. We might call them those who Christ never Knew...
 

Synergy

Well-known member
It's not so hard to imagine there is a third party, as there is an runreached third party in the world who never hear of Christ. We might call them those who Christ never Knew...
No one is out of the reach of the convicting ministry of the Holy Spirit and the Son of God knows everyone. Multitudes have not heard of the Gospel but everyone is convicted by the Holy Spirit to exercise their hearts, conscious, and minds in a God pleasing way. It's interesting that Rom 2:16 says that they also will be called in and judged by God "according to my gospel".

Rom 2:14 For when the nations, who do not have the Law, do by nature the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law unto themselves;
Rom 2:15 who show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and the thoughts between one another accusing or even excusing one another,
Rom 2:16 in a day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

So they're still not a 3rd party since everyone is called by the Holy Spirit and Rom 2:16 interestingly has them held up to the same standards as everyone else.
 
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ReverendRV

Well-known member
No one is out of the reach of the convicting ministry of the Holy Spirit and the Son of God knows everyone. Multitudes have not heard of the Gospel but everyone is convicted by the Holy Spirit to exercise their hearts, conscious, and minds in a God pleasing way. It's interesting that Rom 2:16 says that they also will be called in and judged by God "according to my gospel".

Rom 2:14 For when the nations, who do not have the Law, do by nature the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law unto themselves;
Rom 2:15 who show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and the thoughts between one another accusing or even excusing one another,
Rom 2:16 in a day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

So they're still not a 3rd party since everyone is called by the Holy Spirit and Rom 2:16 interestingly has them held up to the same standards as everyone else.
I disagree. There is a third party because All are not Called. You have the Invited who were Called, the Compelled who were Called; and the rest of Mankind who cannot Believe unless a Preacher is sent...

I think that if you and I were elsewhere arguing for Christianity, you would agree there is a third Party; IE those who never received a Preacher. These are the people who try to enter another 'Way'; such as Islam, etc...
 

HealTheLand

Active member
So then everyone has the capability to be called by God as was illustrated by everyone being called in the parable.
Then it's up to those called to make their election sure (2 Pet 1:10).

the parables were spoken that seeing -- they might 'see' but not understand. the greater the wisdom / Light from God -- on any matter -- the more we will need to get that wisdom from Spirit -- not only (with no help of Spirit) from the text + our own understandings -- if and wherever they are not m o r e - p e r f e c t l y in line with the Spirit (God).

and God is very much higher in wisdoms than man (generally speaking) -- and so we must seek the most (highest) most proper understanding (s) -- from Him. not from letters or completely from our own wisdoms (even though / if "Bible -Based" -- which is just simply a way of saying -- the Way I believe -- read the Bible for many; but we are given here a little, there a little, and "know in part"... so understandings grow -- are not static completely, nor should be).
 
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Synergy

Well-known member
I disagree. There is a third party because everyone is not Called. You have the Invited who were Called, the Compelled who were Called; and the rest of Mankind who cannot Believe unless a Preacher is sent...

I think that if you and I were elsewhere arguing for Christianity, you would agree there is a third Party; IE those who never received a Preacher...
You are not addressing my points. Calling is God's action. Calling is the power of the Holy Spirit to convict one and all. Calling is not just an external announcement of the Gospel, it is first and foremost the internal working of God. That’s made clear because verse 13 uses figurative language about hades/hell so the entire parable has eschatological ramifications (outer darkness, weeping, gnashing of teeth). They are even held up to the same standards as everyone else. So no 3rd party from what I see in the Bible.
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
So then everyone has the capability to be called by God as was illustrated by everyone being called in the parable.
Then it's up to those called to make their election sure (2 Pet 1:10).
Capability to be called? What does that mean?

God does the electing. It's His choice
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
2 Pet 1:10 "Therefore, brothers, rather be diligent to make your calling and election sure, for if you do these things, you shall never fall."

"As the word calling must refer to the act of God, so the word election must; for it is God who both calls and chooses those who shall be saved. The word in the Scriptures usually refers to the actual choosing of those who shall be saved; that is, referring to the time when they, in fact, become the children of God, rather than to the purpose of God that it shall be done; but still there must have been an eternal purpose, for God makes no choice which he did not always intend to make. The word sure, means firm, steadfast, secure, (βεβαιαν). Here the reference must be to themselves; that is, they were so to act as to make it certain to themselves that they had been chosen, and were truly called into the kingdom of God."
-- Albert Barnes, Notes on NT

This isn't about "doing" something to achieve your salvation.
It's about introspection, making sure that your new life reflects a true conversion, and that you're not simply fooling yourself.
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
You are not addressing my points. Calling is God's acti I'm not addressingon. Calling is the power of the Holy Spirit to convict one and all. Calling is not just an external announcement of the Gospel, it is first and foremost the internal working of God. That’s made clear because verse 13 uses figurative language about hades/hell so the entire parable has eschatological ramifications (outer darkness, weeping, gnashing of teeth). They are even held up to the same standards as everyone else. So no 3rd party from what I see in the Bible.
Sorry...

To address it, I would say that Jesus drew a distinction between Called and Chosen, so they can't be the same thing in the context of the Passage. The Calling cannot be the Choosing. The Calling is the Invitation and the Compelling; not the unknown means of entry by the friend...

Remember; the means of entry was unknown...
 
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Synergy

Well-known member
Sorry...

To address it, I would say that Jesus drew a distinction between Called and Chosen, so they can't be the same thing in the context of the Passage. The Calling cannot be the Choosing. The Calling is the Invitation and the Compelling...
Who said they were the same?
 

Slyzr

Well-known member
Thanks RV guy?

Are you into the no one can have a mind thingy?

For "grace"?

If you are, how is that grace?

Never being?
 
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armylngst

Well-known member
Matthew 22:14: "For many are called, but few chosen."

Mat 22:11 And the king coming in to look over the guests, he saw a man there who did not have on a wedding garment.
Mat 22:12 And he said to him, Friend, how did you come in here without having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
Mat 22:13 Then the king said to the servants, Bind him hand and foot and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 22:14 For many are called (κλητοι), but few chosen (εκλεκτοι).

First of all, it is God that does both the calling and the choosing (election). Calling is not some external announcement of the Gospel, it is internal working of God. That’s made clear because verse 13 uses figurative language about hades/hell so the entire parable has eschatological ramifications (outer darkness, weeping, gnashing of teeth).

Second of all, what role does man play? Let’s look at Prov 1:24:

Prov 1:24 Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded;

It is man who does the refusing or the reverse of refusing, i.e.: accepting. Synergy is manifested in all its facets.

Third of all, the fact that the number of people ("many") called by God decreases to the number of people ("few') elected by God hits hard at both the Irresistible Grace and the Preservation of Saints theories.
So, you reject God's praises to Himself in Jude 24 and 25. Is it common practice for you to deny God's word, especially when He is speaking of Himself through the author?
 
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