For the Critics WoF and John 17

[tbeachhead]

I'm posting the Berean Version, because it's my new favorite translation, but for discussion purposes, here's Jesus' last prayer with his assembled disciples before getting betrayed by Judas:

1When Jesus had spoken these things, He lifted up His eyes to heaven and said, “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son may glorify You. 2For You granted Him authority over all people,a so that He may give eternal life to all those You have given Him. 3Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent. 4I have glorified You on earth by accomplishing the work You gave Me to do. 5And now, Father, glorify Me in Your presence with the glory I had with You before the world existed.

6I have revealed Your name to those You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours; You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. 7Now they know that everything You have given Me comes from You. 8For I have given them the words You gave Me, and they have received them. They knew with certainty that I came from You, and they believed that You sent Me.

9I ask on their behalf. I do not ask on behalf of the world, but on behalf of those You have given Me; for they are Yours. 10All I have is Yours, and all You have is Mine; and in them I have been glorified. 11I will no longer be in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to You.

Holy Father, protect them by Your name, the name You gave Me,b so that they may be one as We are one. 12While I was with them, I protected and preserved them by Your name, the name You gave Me. Not one of them has been lost, except the son of destruction, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled.

13But now I am coming to You; and I am saying these things while I am in the world, so that they may have My joy fulfilled within them. 14I have given them Your word and the world has hated them; for they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.

15I am not asking that You take them out of the world, but that You keep them from the evil one.c 16They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 17Sanctify them by the truth; Your word is truth. 18As You sent Me into the world, I have also sent them into the world. 19For them I sanctify Myself, so that they too may be sanctified by the truth.

20I am not asking on behalf of them alone, but also on behalf of those who will believe in Me through their message, 21that all of them may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I am in You. May they also be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.

22I have given them the glory You gave Me, so that they may be one as We are one— 23I in them and You in Me—that they may be perfectly united, so that the world may know that You sent Me and have loved them just as You have loved Me.

24Father, I want those You have given Me to be with Me where I am, that they may see the glory You gave Me because You loved Me before the foundation of the world.

25Righteous Father, although the world has not known You, I know You, and they know that You sent Me. 26And I have made Your name known to them and will continue to make it known, so that the love You have for Me may be in them, and I in them.”

To what degree do you think God answered Jesus' prayer? To what degree do you think God just said, "Nope?" Which of these petitions actually require our own death before ever seeing an answer?

A similar thread could be posted, and I might, with Lord's Prayer. Who actually prays that prayer and believes God will ever answer it in their lifetime?

 

[tbeachhead]

RIP Critics view...sigh.

 

[Yodas_Prodigy]

[1] To what degree do you think God answered Jesus' prayer? [2] To what degree do you think God just said, "Nope?" [3] Which of these petitions actually require our own death before ever seeing an answer?

I think each question needs a clarified answer. There is not always a simple 'yes' or percentage answer.
A general answer to [1] 100%. A general answer to [2] 0%. A general answer to [3] may be some.
I am also reminded of Jesus' prayer where he said, "not my will but thy will."

We just don't know every answer to your questions for every person for sure.

 

[tbeachhead]

I think each question needs a clarified answer. There is not always a simple 'yes' or percentage answer.

I've waited to respond, because this post deserves much more than the glib, meaningless jibes we're so accustomed to.

A general answer to [1]

"To what degree do you think God answered Jesus' prayer?"

100%.

This has to be qualified...If I understand correctly, and you are welcome to correct me, you are saying "God answered 100% of Jesus' prayer," without answering to what degree. For instance, he prayed that you and I would be one even as He and the Father are One. To what degree to you believe that prayer was answered? To what degree are you and I in Them, the the world believes?

To what degree can we expect to be kept from the evil one? (That's like the Lord's Prayer...to what degree can we expect not to be even led into temptation, and to be delivered from evil?) This is why I'm asking...it's all about faith.

A general answer to [2]

"To what degree do you think God just said, 'Nope?'"

0%.

Again...I do not believe you're answering my question of degree. Are you claiming that we have been kept from the evil one? Certainly Blessed Bob would not be able to answer in the affirmative. He was beset to a degree that I cannot even fathom.

A general answer to [3]

"Which of these petitions actually require our own death before ever seeing an answer?"

may be some.

At what point do we receive the glory the Father gave Jesus? And for what purpose? The hope of this promise is so overwhelming, I look to what happened to Moses and Elijah for precedent. I am sure we're talking about that degree of glory or greater, as our works shall be greater.

To what degree?? That's the question, and to what degree have we seen even a hint of an answer to this prayer?

I am also reminded of Jesus' prayer where he said, "not my will but thy will."

You're quoting totally out of context. Jesus spoke that one hour later, knowing the cup that He had been preparing for years to drink, for which he had already been forewarned by a visit directly from both Moses and Elijah. He did not say these words in this prayer for us...His was the expression of God's will...unless you're suggesting any part of Jesus' prayer was outside the Father's will, as his prayer concerning the cup so clearly WAS.

We just don't know every answer to your questions for every person for sure.

I know that. but I appreciate your insights...and these are the issues of faith and expectations. What does an answer to John 17 look like?