For the Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son

Chalcedon

Well-known member
@TomFL denies Jesus Judged men on this earth but below we see that is FALSE as our Lord not only said He is the One and Only Judge but He did judge men while walking this earth and condemned the Pharisees below in Matthew 23. So @TomFL you must deal with these passages which contradict your pet verse in John 12 or somehow reconcile your view to harmonize with these Scriptures below. You have yet to deal with these and bring harmony to the bible regarding Jesus and His Judgment of men while walking this earth.

John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

John 5:22
For the Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son

John 5:27
And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man.

John 5:30
I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.

John 9:39
Then Jesus declared, "For judgment I have come into this world,

Below the 7 Woes of Judgment !

Matthew 23
13 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.

15 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.

16 “Woe to you, blind guides! You say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gold of the temple is bound by that oath.’ 17 You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred? 18 You also say, ‘If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gift on the altar is bound by that oath.’ 19 You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20 Therefore, anyone who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. 21 And anyone who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it. 22 And anyone who swears by heaven swears by God’s throne and by the one who sits on it.

23 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. 24 You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.

25 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26 Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.

27 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean. 28 In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.

29 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. 30 And you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our ancestors, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31 So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Go ahead, then, and complete what your ancestors started!

33 “You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? 34 Therefore I am sending you prophets and sages and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. 35 And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 Truly I tell you, all this will come on this generation.

Acts 10:42
And He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that He is the One appointed by God to judge the living and the dead.

hope this helps !!!
 
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TomFL

Guest
@TomFL denies Jesus Judged men on this earth but below we see that is FALSE as our Lord not only said He is the One and Only Judge but He did judge men while walking this earth and condemned the Pharisees below in Matthew 23. So @TomFL you must deal with these passages which contradict your pet verse in John 12 or somehow reconcile your view to harmonize with these Scriptures below. You have yet to deal with these and bring harmony to the bible regarding Jesus and His Judgment of men while walking this earth.


Sorry but you have misrepresented me

as I never stated any such thing

what I did do is quote

John 12:47-48 (KJV)
47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

and note christs words concerning eternal judgment

You mistakenly apart from context of the above verse spoke of Christs temporal judgment upon Jerusalem

It is unrelated

and additionally I now note eternal judgment is at the last day

So unbeliever who is under condemnation may become a believer and not be condemned

BTW you are still trying to get scripture to contradict scripture

Ref John 9:39 God's hardening of Israel was temporal to bring salvation to the gentiles
and any jew could repent and be saved as Seen in Rom 11:23

that is all I have time for now
 

Chalcedon

Well-known member
Sorry but you have misrepresented me

as I never stated any such thing

what I did do is quote

John 12:47-48 (KJV)
47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

and note christs words concerning eternal judgment

You mistakenly apart from context of the above verse spoke of Christs temporal judgment upon Jerusalem

It is unrelated

and additionally I now note eternal judgment is at the last day

So unbeliever who is under condemnation may become a believer and not be condemned

BTW you are still trying to get scripture to contradict scripture

Ref John 9:39 God's hardening of Israel was temporal to bring salvation to the gentiles
and any jew could repent and be saved as Seen in Rom 11:23

that is all I have time for now
Was Jesus in Matthew 23 judging/condemning the Pharisees ? yes or no

Also is hell an eternal judgment ? yes or no
 

Chalcedon

Well-known member
And if you refuse to answer the above questions of the OP then everyone can see you are doing nothing but playing games @TomFL .

There is no other way to explain why you refuse to address Jesus Judgment and Condemnation of the Pharisees to hell in Matthew 23.

“You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?

So you have a contradiction to resolve.

hope this helps !!!
 
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Chalcedon

Well-known member
And just so we are clear what Jesus means by hell- its everlasting/eternal, never ending judgment/condemnation with pain and suffering.

Mark 9:42-48
42 "And if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a large millstone tied around his neck. 43 If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out. 45 And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell. 47 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, 48 where

"'their worm does not die,
and the fire is not quenched
.'


Matthew 25:46
"These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
Acts 10:42
And He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that He is the One appointed by God to judge the living and the dead.

You don't listen too well.

For I do not speak from myself but the Father Himself who sent me has given me command what to say and what to speak. I know that His command is eternal life, therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told me. John 12:49-50

The words that I say to you I do not speak from myself, but the Father abiding in me does the works..... the word which you hear is not mine but the Father’s who sent me. John 14:10, 24
 

Chalcedon

Well-known member
ignored.

see here at the OK Corral 😍

 
T

TomFL

Guest
Was Jesus in Matthew 23 judging/condemning the Pharisees ? yes or no

Also is hell an eternal judgment ? yes or no

Already answered multiple times on the other thread addressing the same subject

but however no Jesus is assigning the pharisees to hell

that happens on the last day if they do not repent

as in Mat 25 which you quoted and it will be eternal
 

Chalcedon

Well-known member
Already answered multiple times on the other thread addressing the same subject

but however no Jesus is assigning the pharisees to hell

that happens on the last day if they do not repent

as in Mat 25 which you quoted and it will be eternal
Except Jesus used the present indicative active verb ποιεῖτε in Matt 23:15.
 
T

TomFL

Guest
And if you refuse to answer the above questions of the OP then everyone can see you are doing nothing but playing games @TomFL .

There is no other way to explain why you refuse to address Jesus Judgment and Condemnation of the Pharisees to hell in Matthew 23.

“You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?

So you have a contradiction to resolve.

hope this helps !!!
That appears somewhat disengenous to me as I have addressed everything you brought up on the other thread

I will trust it was not deliberate

and again a question is not an affirmation

The answer is repentance if they repented they could be saved

Romans 11:23 (KJV)
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

any Jew could
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
That appears somewhat disengenous to me as I have addressed everything you brought up on the other thread

If that's true, then it is LIKEWISE "disingenuous" of YOU to keep quoting the "world" and "all men" passages, since *I* have addressed all of those passages many times in the past.

Double standards much?
 
T

TomFL

Guest
Except Jesus used the present indicative active verb ποιεῖτε in Matt 23:15.
Also already addressed

Present condition does not assure final destiny

You are simply repeating what you stated on the other thread

and you are failing to address my argument based on John 12:47 which you affirmed as fair

John 12:47 (KJV)
47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

which caused your diversion on to the present topic

So when can I expect you will do so
 
T

TomFL

Guest
If that's true, then it is LIKEWISE "disingenuous" of YOU to keep quoting the "world" and "all men" passages, since *I* have addressed all of those passages many times in the past.

Double standards much?

Fact of the matter is you refused to address

John 12:47 (KJV)
47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

and attempted to redefine BADG but failed to address scriptural use of especially

So no Theo you don't get a pass for refusal
 

Chalcedon

Well-known member
Also already addressed

Present condition does not assure final destiny

You are simply repeating what you stated on the other thread

and you are failing to address my argument based on John 12:47 which you affirmed as fair

John 12:47 (KJV)
47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

which caused your diversion on to the present topic

So when can I expect you will do so
He said you make them (past tense ) twice the sons of hell as you ( present tense ).

There is no way around Jesus words of condemnation. He is telling them you are making your disciples twice the sons of hell as they are presently. You are really spinning what Jesus said to fit your paradigm.

I'm taking His words literally which is the correct way. Biblical scholar and pastor J. I. Packer states, “Scripture is to be interpreted in its natural, intended sense, and theological predilections must not be allowed to divert us from loyalty to what the text actually asserts.”

When studying the Bible,
if the literal sense makes sense,
seek no other sense,
lest it become nonsense.
 
T

TomFL

Guest
He said you make them (past tense ) twice the sons of hell as you ( present tense ).

There is no way around Jesus words of condemnation. He is telling them you are making your disciples twice the sons of hell as they are presently. You are really spinning what Jesus said to fit your paradigm.

I'm taking His words literally which is the correct way. Biblical scholar and pastor J. I. Packer states, “Scripture is to be interpreted in its natural, intended sense, and theological predilections must not be allowed to divert us from loyalty to what the text actually asserts.”

When studying the Bible,
if the literal sense makes sense,
seek no other sense,
lest it become nonsense.

A son of hell will inherit hell if they do not repent

Do you have any evidence pharisees could not repent

that is four arguments you have presented now

without once having addressed my argument once

My argument has been up for about 5 days yours not even a whole day

Are you going to do what you stated was fair ?
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Fact of the matter is you refused to address

John 12:47 (KJV)
47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

and attempted to redefine BADG but failed to address scriptural use of especially

So no Theo you don't get a pass for refusal

I didn't "refuse".
I ADDRESSED that verse.

You simply didn't like the answer.
And that's NOT my problem.
 
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TomFL

Guest
I didn't "refuse".
I ADDRESSED that verse.

You simply didn't like the answer.
And that's NOT my problem.
Yeah Theo you did

and stated you had no obligation to answer me

and even accused me of harassing you for trying to get an answer from you
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Yeah Theo you did

and stated you had no obligation to answer me

and even accused me of harassing you for trying to get an answer from you

Yes, asking me to address the question 20 more times, after I've ALREADY addressed it initially, DOES constitute "harassment".
 
T

TomFL

Guest
Yes and Yes.
No Pharisees was consigned to hell at that time thoiugh they were certainly in danger of it and had a nature that would send them to hell if they did not repent



and yes hell is eternal

In any case John cannot be contradicted by Matthew

John 12:47-48 (KJV)
47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.


Christ did not come into the world to judge but to save

Ones eternal destiny is not fixed until he dies and the judgment is at the last day
 
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