For whom did Christ die?

eternomade

Well-known member
The following two questions are a modern paraphrase of two questions from John Owens book "The Death of Death in the Death of Christ".

A. For whom did Christ die?

And

B. What did His death accomplish?

If Christ paid for all sins of all men without exception, yet all men are not saved, what is the reason that all are not saved?
 

fltom

Well-known member
The following two questions are a modern paraphrase of two questions from John Owens book "The Death of Death in the Death of Christ".

A. For whom did Christ die?

And

B. What did His death accomplish?

If Christ paid for all sins of all men without exception, yet all men are not saved, what is the reason that all are not saved?
All are not saved because all do not believe

Christ was given for the world but only those who believe will be saved

John 3:14-18 (KJV)
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Christ's death was the provision

It was for all to be appropriated through faith
 

Predestined

Well-known member
The following two questions are a modern paraphrase of two questions from John Owens book "The Death of Death in the Death of Christ".

A. For whom did Christ die?

And

B. What did His death accomplish?

If Christ paid for all sins of all men without exception, yet all men are not saved, what is the reason that all are not saved?
A. The ungodly

B. Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (Galatians 3:13-14). Christ redeemed us from the guilt of our sin. We are justified as a gift by his grace, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus (Romans 3:24).

C. short answer: they reject Christ... the cross is foolishness to them
 

fltom

Well-known member
Did Jesus atone for their sin of unbelief?
Sin is not forgiven unless one believes

Christ death is provisional and benefits only those who believe

if you don't believe you are not forgiven

if you don't believe you are not saved

John 3:14-18 (KJV)
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.


Christ was given for the world - extent of God's love

yet only those who believe receive eternal life
those who do not believe are condemned
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
All are not saved because all do not believe

Christ was given for the world but only those who believe will be saved

John 3:14-18 (KJV)
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Christ's death was the provision

It was for all to be appropriated through faith
So you are rewarded with eternal life when you in and of yourself believe?
 

fltom

Well-known member
So you are rewarded with eternal life when you in and of yourself believe?
This is scripture

John 3:14-16 (KJV)
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 20:31 (KJV)
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Acts 16:31 (KJV)
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

1 Corinthians 1:21 (KJV)
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

God saves those that believe based on the merits of Christ and a union with him
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
This is scripture

John 3:14-16 (KJV)
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 20:31 (KJV)
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Acts 16:31 (KJV)
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

1 Corinthians 1:21 (KJV)
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

God saves those that believe based on the merits of Christ and a union with him
No, actually He saves them based on their meritorious choice in your silly system. Christ saves no one until the proper choice is made according to your system
 

fltom

Well-known member
Just posting my scripture ReformedGuy

fltom said:
This is scripture

John 3:14-16 (KJV)
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 20:31 (KJV)
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Acts 16:31 (KJV)
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

1 Corinthians 1:21 (KJV)
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

God saves those that believe based on the merits of Christ and a union with him

.............................

I like that
 

fltom

Well-known member
No, actually He saves them based on their meritorious choice in your silly system. Christ saves no one until the proper choice is made according to your system
Sorry that is simply false

The merit is in Christ

Your self confessed failure to understand why it is faith in Christ rather than self that is necessary leads you into error
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
This is scripture

John 3:14-16 (KJV)
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 20:31 (KJV)
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Acts 16:31 (KJV)
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

1 Corinthians 1:21 (KJV)
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

God saves those that believe based on the merits of Christ and a union with him

Just posting my scripture ReformedGuy

fltom said:
This is scripture

John 3:14-16 (KJV)
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 20:31 (KJV)
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Acts 16:31 (KJV)
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

1 Corinthians 1:21 (KJV)
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

God saves those that believe based on the merits of Christ and a union with him

.............................

I like that
I agree. He will not save you until you make the right meritorious choice and you are rewarded with eternal life.
 

Manfred

Well-known member
This is scripture

John 3:14-16 (KJV)
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 20:31 (KJV)
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Acts 16:31 (KJV)
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

1 Corinthians 1:21 (KJV)
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

God saves those that believe based on the merits of Christ and a union with him
Please show in these scriptures that the faith spoken of is not revealed by the Holy Spirit but comes from the intellect and self will.

You are assuming something into these scriptures that are not there. It is called eisegesis.

Eisegesis (/ˌaɪsɪˈdʒiːsɪs/) is the process of interpreting text in such a way as to introduce one's own presuppositions, agendas or biases. It is commonly referred to as reading into the text.[1] It is often done to "prove" a pre-held point of concern, and to provide confirmation bias corresponding with the pre-held interpretation and any agendas supported by it.

Eisegesis is best understood when contrasted with exegesis. Exegesis is drawing out a text's meaning in accordance with the author's context and discoverable meaning. Eisegesis is when a reader imposes their interpretation of the text. Thus exegesis tends to be objective; and eisegesis, highly subjective. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eisegesis
 

Manfred

Well-known member

fltom

Well-known member
I agree. He will not save you until you make the right meritorious choice and you are rewarded with eternal life.
Sorry scripture show there is no personal merit in faith

Romans 4:4-5 (KJV)
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Romans 3:23-27 (KJV)
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

all merit is in Christ
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
Sorry scripture show there is no personal merit in faith

Romans 4:4-5 (KJV)
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Romans 3:23-27 (KJV)
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

all merit is in Christ
Really? I see its goal post moving time. So how does one get into Christ in your system? By choice right? So there is merit in that choice. Where else would you like to move it? lol Your arguement is illogical and will lead to infinite regress
 

fltom

Well-known member
And therefore mans faith has merit.
Only in your mind

not according to the bible

Romans 4:4-5 (KJV)
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Romans 3:23-27 (KJV)
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

which nowhere teaches that man having a responsibility to believe translates into a system of merit or works
 
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