Foreknowing and foreknowledge

There was once a very popular television sitcom. There is one famous episode about our title. In this episode, the girlfriend was telling a story to one of the main characters. It went something like “we went on a date, had a nice dinner, yada, yada, yada, then we had breakfast”. This set off for the whole episode to have jokes to explore what yada yada yada means.

Interestingly, this is exactly the same thing that came to my mind as soon as I read CookedGoose's request about "yada".

"You yada'd over the best part!"

Strong's definitions of "yada" and "ginosko" are almost identical.
Yada=To know in a great variety of senses, instruct, designate, advise, answer, appoint.
Ginosko= To know in a great variety of applications with many implications. To allow, be aware of, feel, perceive, resolve.

Yes, completely agree.

In my studies of "know", I noticed that there were two Greek words used, "ginosko" and "oida". My intuition told me that "oida" was for more factual knowledge, while "ginosko" dealt more with relational knowledge. But my study didn't bear this out. It turns out that both terms have both connotations.

I mention this for those who think that because I'm a Calvinist I can't accept objective truth over what I'd "like" to believe.

Not being strong in Hebrew, I didn't do a study on the Hebrew words, but I did look at the contextual OT usage of the use of the translated term "know". Let's see if I can pull up some of the instances I found:

I’ve studied the usage of these terms in both Testaments, and certain patterns and usages have emerged:


Sexual Knowledge/Intimacy

Gen. 4:1 Now Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived
Gen. 4:17 Cain knew his wife, and she conceived
Gen. 4:25 And Adam knew his wife again, and she bore a son
Gen. 19:8 Behold, I have two daughters who have not known any man.
Gen. 24:16 The young woman was very attractive in appearance, a maiden whom no man had known.
(See also Gen. 19:5, 38:26, Num. 31:17, 31:35, Judg. 11:39, 19:22,25, 21:12, 1 Sam. 1:19, 1 Kings 1:4, Matt. 1:25)


Relational Knowledge (or nonsexual love/care)

Deut. 9:24 You have been rebellious against the LORD from the day that I knewyou.
Deut. 34:10 And there has not arisen a prophet since in Israel like Moses, whom the LORD knew face to face,
Jer. 1:5 “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,
and before you were born I consecrated you;
I appointed you a prophet to the nations.”
Amos 3:2 “You only have I known
of all the families of the earth;
therefore I will punish you
for all your iniquities.
Matt. 7:23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
(see also Deut. 11:28, 13:2,6,13, 28:36,64, 29:26, 32:17, John 1:10, 7:27,28, 8:19,55, 10:4, 13:18, 14:7,9,16:2, 17:3,25, 1 Cor. 8:3, Phil. 3:10, 4:6, 1 Thess. 4:5, 2 Thess. 1:8, 2 Tim. 2:19, Heb. 8:11, 1 John 2:3-5,13-14, 1 John 3:1,6, 1 John 4:6-8)
[/QUOTE]
 
Interestingly, this is exactly the same thing that came to my mind as soon as I read CookedGoose's request about "yada".

"You yada'd over the best part!"



Yes, completely agree.

In my studies of "know", I noticed that there were two Greek words used, "ginosko" and "oida". My intuition told me that "oida" was for more factual knowledge, while "ginosko" dealt more with relational knowledge. But my study didn't bear this out. It turns out that both terms have both connotations.

I mention this for those who think that because I'm a Calvinist I can't accept objective truth over what I'd "like" to believe.

Not being strong in Hebrew, I didn't do a study on the Hebrew words, but I did look at the contextual OT usage of the use of the translated term "know". Let's see if I can pull up some of the instances I found:

I’ve studied the usage of these terms in both Testaments, and certain patterns and usages have emerged:


Sexual Knowledge/Intimacy

Gen. 4:1 Now Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived
Gen. 4:17 Cain knew his wife, and she conceived
Gen. 4:25 And Adam knew his wife again, and she bore a son
Gen. 19:8 Behold, I have two daughters who have not known any man.
Gen. 24:16 The young woman was very attractive in appearance, a maiden whom no man had known.
(See also Gen. 19:5, 38:26, Num. 31:17, 31:35, Judg. 11:39, 19:22,25, 21:12, 1 Sam. 1:19, 1 Kings 1:4, Matt. 1:25)


Relational Knowledge (or nonsexual love/care)

Deut. 9:24 You have been rebellious against the LORD from the day that I knewyou.
Deut. 34:10 And there has not arisen a prophet since in Israel like Moses, whom the LORD knew face to face,
Jer. 1:5 “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,
and before you were born I consecrated you;
I appointed you a prophet to the nations.”
Amos 3:2 “You only have I known
of all the families of the earth;
therefore I will punish you
for all your iniquities.
Matt. 7:23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
(see also Deut. 11:28, 13:2,6,13, 28:36,64, 29:26, 32:17, John 1:10, 7:27,28, 8:19,55, 10:4, 13:18, 14:7,9,16:2, 17:3,25, 1 Cor. 8:3, Phil. 3:10, 4:6, 1 Thess. 4:5, 2 Thess. 1:8, 2 Tim. 2:19, Heb. 8:11, 1 John 2:3-5,13-14, 1 John 3:1,6, 1 John 4:6-8)
[/QUOTE]
I could tell from some of these posts I was behind in my knowledge, but now I yada.
 
Interestingly, this is exactly the same thing that came to my mind as soon as I read CookedGoose's request about "yada".

"You yada'd over the best part!"



Yes, completely agree.

In my studies of "know", I noticed that there were two Greek words used, "ginosko" and "oida". My intuition told me that "oida" was for more factual knowledge, while "ginosko" dealt more with relational knowledge. But my study didn't bear this out. It turns out that both terms have both connotations.

I mention this for those who think that because I'm a Calvinist I can't accept objective truth over what I'd "like" to believe.

Not being strong in Hebrew, I didn't do a study on the Hebrew words, but I did look at the contextual OT usage of the use of the translated term "know". Let's see if I can pull up some of the instances I found:

I’ve studied the usage of these terms in both Testaments, and certain patterns and usages have emerged:


Sexual Knowledge/Intimacy

Gen. 4:1 Now Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived
Gen. 4:17 Cain knew his wife, and she conceived
Gen. 4:25 And Adam knew his wife again, and she bore a son
Gen. 19:8 Behold, I have two daughters who have not known any man.
Gen. 24:16 The young woman was very attractive in appearance, a maiden whom no man had known.
(See also Gen. 19:5, 38:26, Num. 31:17, 31:35, Judg. 11:39, 19:22,25, 21:12, 1 Sam. 1:19, 1 Kings 1:4, Matt. 1:25)


Relational Knowledge (or nonsexual love/care)

Deut. 9:24 You have been rebellious against the LORD from the day that I knewyou.
Deut. 34:10 And there has not arisen a prophet since in Israel like Moses, whom the LORD knew face to face,
Jer. 1:5 “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,
and before you were born I consecrated you;
I appointed you a prophet to the nations.”
Amos 3:2 “You only have I known
of all the families of the earth;
therefore I will punish you
for all your iniquities.
Matt. 7:23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
(see also Deut. 11:28, 13:2,6,13, 28:36,64, 29:26, 32:17, John 1:10, 7:27,28, 8:19,55, 10:4, 13:18, 14:7,9,16:2, 17:3,25, 1 Cor. 8:3, Phil. 3:10, 4:6, 1 Thess. 4:5, 2 Thess. 1:8, 2 Tim. 2:19, Heb. 8:11, 1 John 2:3-5,13-14, 1 John 3:1,6, 1 John 4:6-8)
It's my favorite Tract that he wrote. I had to edit it to make it form to mine and fit on one page...
 
If you affirm that God knows what will occur after creation and
you deny that God determined what will occur after creation then
you are necessarily claiming that something other than God determined his knowledge of what will occur after creation.

What was that “something” that determined God’s knowledge of what will occur after creation?

Some on this forum have stated that God’s knowledge is based on “what man will do”… and not on what God will do…

If this is true then at what point, before or after creation, did man determine God’s knowledge of “what he will do”?

 
If you affirm that God knows what will occur after creation and
you deny that God determined what will occur after creation then
you are necessarily claiming that something other than God determined his knowledge of what will occur after creation.

What was that “something” that determined God’s knowledge of what will occur after creation?

Some on this forum have stated that God’s knowledge is based on “what man will do”… and not on what God will do…

If this is true then at what point, before or after creation, did man determine God’s knowledge of “what he will do”?

Man does not determine God's knowledge nor does God exhaustively predetermine man.

Libertarians consider the future open and unsettled, so even if God is said to look into the future, the miracle is that it is an open unsettled future.

Luck ie a miracle of God's nature determines God's exhaustive knowledge of an open unsettled future, like a dead-on incidently accurate guess. If you randomly toss two dice they can roll doubles without inter-influence. God's nature is miraculous.
 
Man does not determine God's knowledge nor does God exhaustively predetermine man.

Libertarians consider the future open and unsettled, so even if God is said to look into the future, the miracle is that it is an open unsettled future.

Luck ie a miracle of God's nature determines God's exhaustive knowledge of an open unsettled future, like a dead-on incidently accurate guess. If you randomly toss two dice they can roll doubles without inter-influence. God's nature is miraculous.

Not being,

Is a rough one.
 
If you affirm that God knows what will occur after creation and
you deny that God determined what will occur after creation then
you are necessarily claiming that something other than God determined his knowledge of what will occur after creation.

What was that “something” that determined God’s knowledge of what will occur after creation?

Some on this forum have stated that God’s knowledge is based on “what man will do”… and not on what God will do…

If this is true then at what point, before or after creation, did man determine God’s knowledge of “what he will do”?

Which of course violates God's aseity.
 
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