Foreknowledge and Foreordination

JDS

Well-known member
All you showed me is how and why you don't know nor understand what the Bible means and what it is for.
I have heard some silly things in my lifetime but nothing as silly as what you are saying. You must be trolling because nobody could really be that confused..
 

Tercon

Well-known member
I have heard some silly things in my lifetime but nothing as silly as what you are saying. You must be trolling because nobody could really be that confused..
Hey we agree on something

Actually the two of you have sillier things in your head than that, because you both disbelieve in and reject the ONLY way that God makes Himself and everything known to exist and occur. It is in His belief and Believing Mind that all exists and occurs, and not ours silly. Neither of you have a basis for your belief and faith, because you both reject His means of making Himself known. You both obviously don't know nor understand Biblical belief and faith.
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
Actually the two of you have sillier things in your head than that, because you both disbelieve in and reject the ONLY way that God makes Himself and everything known to exist and occur. It is in His belief and Believing Mind that all exists and occurs, and not ours silly. Neither of you have a basis for your belief and faith, because you both reject His means of making Himself known. You both obviously don't know nor understand Biblical belief and faith.
I am still wondering what scripture you reference in saying God has a believing mind, or He has belief
Since I have asked you a few times and you give no scripture, is this something you made up?
 

Tercon

Well-known member
I am still wondering what scripture you reference in saying God has a believing mind, or He has belief
Since I have asked you a few times and you give no scripture, is this something you made up?

You do realize every time you say that; you misrepresent God and the Bible? In fact there are many verses saying and suggesting that God believes, and faith originated in and with God. And if you disbelieve that faith and belief originated in and with God, then how is it possible that your faith and belief is in or of God?

And now apart from law hath the righteousness of God been manifested, testified to by the law and the prophets, and the righteousness of God [is] through the faith of Jesus Christ to all, and upon all those believing, -- for there is no difference, for all did sin, and are come short of the glory of God -- being declared righteous freely by His grace through the redemption that [is] in Christ Jesus, whom God did set forth a mercy seat, through the faith in his blood, for the shewing forth of His righteousness, because of the passing over of the bygone sins in the forbearance of God -- for the shewing forth of His righteousness in the present time, for His being righteous, and declaring him righteous who [is] of the faith of Jesus. (Romans 3:21-26)

we by nature Jews, and not sinners of the nations, having known also that a man is not declared righteous by works of law, if not through the faith of Jesus Christ, also we in Christ Jesus did believe, that we might be declared righteous by the faith of Christ, and not by works of law, wherefore declared righteous by works of law shall be no flesh.' (Galatians 2:15-17)

the law, then, [is] against the promises of God? -- let it not be! for if a law was given that was able to make alive, truly by law there would have been the righteousness, but the Writing did shut up the whole under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ may be given to those believing. And before the coming of the faith, under law we were being kept, shut up to the faith about to be revealed, (Galatians 3:21-23)

yes, indeed, and I count all things to be loss, because of the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, because of whom of the all things I suffered loss, and do count them to be refuse, that Christ I may gain, and be found in him, not having my righteousness, which [is] of law, but that which [is] through faith of Christ -- the righteousness that is of God by the faith, to know him, and the power of his rising again, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being conformed to his death, if anyhow I may attain to the rising again of the dead. (Philippians 3:8-12)

And having the same spirit of the faith, according to that which hath been written, `I believed, therefore I did speak;' we also do believe, therefore also do we speak; knowing that He who did raise up the Lord Jesus, us also through Jesus shall raise up, and shall present with you, for the all things [are] because of you, that the grace having been multiplied, because of the thanksgiving of the more, may abound to the glory of God; (2 Corinthians 4:1-15)

And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him. (1 John 4:16)

Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. (1 John 5:1)

Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? (1 John 5:5)

He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. (1 John 5:10)

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. (1 John 5:13)

Now without it is impossible to please God, for the one who draws near to Him must believe that He exists and rewards those who seek Him. (Hebrews 11:6)

And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.(Acts 16:31)

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. (John 3:16)

and the righteousness of God [is] through the faith of Jesus Christ to all, and upon all those believing, -- for there is no difference, (Romans 3:22)

and to him who is not working, and is believing upon Him who is declaring righteous the impious, his faith is reckoned -- to righteousness: even as David also doth speak of the happiness of the man to whom God doth reckon righteousness apart from works: `Happy they whose lawless acts were forgiven, and whose sins were covered; happy the man to whom the Lord may not reckon sin.' [Is] this happiness, then, upon the circumcision, or also upon the uncircumcision -- for we say that the faith was reckoned to Abraham -- to righteousness? how then was it reckoned? he being in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision; and a sign he did receive of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith in the uncircumcision, for his being father of all those believing through uncircumcision, for the righteousness also being reckoned to them, and father of circumcision to those not of circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of the faith, that [is] in the uncircumcision of our father Abraham. (Romans 4:5-12)

And he hath believed in Jehovah, and He reckoneth it to him (Abraham) – righteousness. (Genesis 15:6)

And having the same spirit of the faith, according to that which hath been written, `I believed, therefore I did speak;' we also do believe, therefore also do we speak; (2 Corinthians 4:13)

having known also that a man is not declared righteous by works of law, if not through the faith of Jesus Christ, also we in Christ Jesus did believe, that we might be declared righteous by the faith of Christ, and not by works of law, wherefore declared righteous by works of law shall be no flesh.' (Galatians 2:16)

but the Writing did shut up the whole under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ may be given to those believing. (Galatians 3:22)

let no one despise thy youth, but a pattern become thou of those believing in word, in behaviour, in love, in spirit, in faith, in purity; (1 Timothy 4:11-13)

By faith Enoch was translated -- not to see death, and was not found, because God did translate him; for before his translation he had been testified to -- that he had pleased God well, and apart from faith it is impossible to please well, for it behoveth him who is coming to God to believe that He is, and to those seeking Him He becometh a rewarder. (Hebrews 11:5-7)

who through him do believe in God, who did raise out of the dead, and glory to him did give, so that your faith and hope may be in God. (1 Peter 1:21)

If your faith and belief didn't originate in and with God, then how is your hope in and of God?
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
You do realize every time you say that; you misrepresent God and the Bible? In fact there are many verses saying and suggesting that God believes, and faith originated in and with God. And if you disbelieve that faith and belief originated in and with God, then how is it possible that your faith and belief is in or of God?

And now apart from law hath the righteousness of God been manifested, testified to by the law and the prophets, and the righteousness of God [is] through the faith of Jesus Christ to all, and upon all those believing, -- for there is no difference, for all did sin, and are come short of the glory of God -- being declared righteous freely by His grace through the redemption that [is] in Christ Jesus, whom God did set forth a mercy seat, through the faith in his blood, for the shewing forth of His righteousness, because of the passing over of the bygone sins in the forbearance of God -- for the shewing forth of His righteousness in the present time, for His being righteous, and declaring him righteous who [is] of the faith of Jesus. (Romans 3:21-26)

we by nature Jews, and not sinners of the nations, having known also that a man is not declared righteous by works of law, if not through the faith of Jesus Christ, also we in Christ Jesus did believe, that we might be declared righteous by the faith of Christ, and not by works of law, wherefore declared righteous by works of law shall be no flesh.' (Galatians 2:15-17)

the law, then, [is] against the promises of God? -- let it not be! for if a law was given that was able to make alive, truly by law there would have been the righteousness, but the Writing did shut up the whole under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ may be given to those believing. And before the coming of the faith, under law we were being kept, shut up to the faith about to be revealed, (Galatians 3:21-23)

yes, indeed, and I count all things to be loss, because of the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, because of whom of the all things I suffered loss, and do count them to be refuse, that Christ I may gain, and be found in him, not having my righteousness, which [is] of law, but that which [is] through faith of Christ -- the righteousness that is of God by the faith, to know him, and the power of his rising again, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being conformed to his death, if anyhow I may attain to the rising again of the dead. (Philippians 3:8-12)

And having the same spirit of the faith, according to that which hath been written, `I believed, therefore I did speak;' we also do believe, therefore also do we speak; knowing that He who did raise up the Lord Jesus, us also through Jesus shall raise up, and shall present with you, for the all things [are] because of you, that the grace having been multiplied, because of the thanksgiving of the more, may abound to the glory of God; (2 Corinthians 4:1-15)

And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him. (1 John 4:16)

Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. (1 John 5:1)

Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? (1 John 5:5)

He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. (1 John 5:10)

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. (1 John 5:13)

Now without it is impossible to please God, for the one who draws near to Him must believe that He exists and rewards those who seek Him. (Hebrews 11:6)

And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.(Acts 16:31)

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. (John 3:16)

and the righteousness of God [is] through the faith of Jesus Christ to all, and upon all those believing, -- for there is no difference, (Romans 3:22)

and to him who is not working, and is believing upon Him who is declaring righteous the impious, his faith is reckoned -- to righteousness: even as David also doth speak of the happiness of the man to whom God doth reckon righteousness apart from works: `Happy they whose lawless acts were forgiven, and whose sins were covered; happy the man to whom the Lord may not reckon sin.' [Is] this happiness, then, upon the circumcision, or also upon the uncircumcision -- for we say that the faith was reckoned to Abraham -- to righteousness? how then was it reckoned? he being in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision; and a sign he did receive of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith in the uncircumcision, for his being father of all those believing through uncircumcision, for the righteousness also being reckoned to them, and father of circumcision to those not of circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of the faith, that [is] in the uncircumcision of our father Abraham. (Romans 4:5-12)

And he hath believed in Jehovah, and He reckoneth it to him (Abraham) – righteousness. (Genesis 15:6)

And having the same spirit of the faith, according to that which hath been written, `I httpsla://forums.carm.org/misc/contact, therefore I did speak;' we also do believe, therefore also do we speak; (2 Corinthians 4:13)

having known also that a man is not declared righteous by works of law, if not through the faith of Jesus Christ, also we in Christ Jesus did believe, that we might be declared righteous by the faith of Christ, and not by works of law, wherefore declared righteous by works of law shall be no flesh.' (Galatians 2:16)

but the Writing did shut up the whole under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ may be given to those believing. (Galatians 3:22)

let no one despise thy youth, but a pattern become thou of those believing in word, in behaviour, in love, in spirit, in faith, in purity; (1 Timothy 4:11-13)

By faith Enoch was translated -- not to see death, and was not found, because God did translate him; for before his translation he had been testified to -- that he had pleased God well, and apart from faith it is impossible to please well, for it behoveth him who is coming to God to believe that He is, and to those seeking Him He becometh a rewarder. (Hebrews 11:5-7)

who through him do believe in God, who did raise out of the dead, and glory to him did give, so that your faith and hope may be in God. (1 Peter 1:21)

If your faith and belief didn't originate in and with God, then how is your hope in and of God?
when i ask a simple direct question requesting a simple scripture, and i get 2 pages. experience here has shown me there will be no simple Biblical answer. So long ago I stopped reading them.
If your idea is from the Bible just give me 1 or 2 verses that state your point
 

civic

Well-known member
when i ask a simple direct question requesting a simple scripture, and i get 2 pages. experience here has shown me there will be no simple Biblical answer
look into the mirror that’s exactly what you do with us all the time ROFL. What comes around goes around . Haha 😂
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
when i ask a simple direct question requesting a simple scripture, and i get 2 pages. experience here has shown me there will be no simple Biblical answer. So long ago I stopped reading them.
If your idea is from the Bible just give me 1 or 2 verses that state your point
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
when i ask a simple direct question requesting a simple scripture, and i get 2 pages. experience here has shown me there will be no simple Biblical answer. So long ago I stopped reading them.
If your idea is from the Bible just give me 1 or 2 verses that state your point

Wow... I really don't know how to respond to this.

This poster seems to think that the Bible is some sort of "Systematic Theology", where you can easily and quickly (because apparently this poster has better things to do than read the Bible) look up the answers to doctrinal questions.

He seems to think the Bible looks something like this:

Gen. 1:1 There is only one God.
Gen. 1:2 Jesus is God's Son.
Gen. 1:3 Jesus is Deity.
Gen. 1:4 God is Triune.
Gen. 1:5 Salvation is by faith.
Gen. 1:6 Christ died on a cross.
Gen. 1:7 You are only supposed to Baptize believers.
Gen. 1:8 Baptism must be by immersion, not sprinkling.
Gen. 1:9 Post-millenianism is true.

That's just not how it works...
 
Last edited:

Tercon

Well-known member
Wow... I really don't know how to respond to this.

This poster seems to think that the Bible is some sort of "Systematic Theology", where you can easily and quickly (because apparently this poster has better things to do than read the Bible)

He seems to think the Bible looks something like this:

Gen. 1:1 There is only one God.
Gen. 1:2 Jesus is God's Son.
Gen. 1:3 Jesus is Deity.
Gen. 1:4 God is Triune.
Gen. 1:5 Salvation is by faith.
Gen. 1:6 Christ died on a cross.
Gen. 1:7 You are only supposed to Baptize believers.
Gen. 1:8 Baptism must be by immersion, not sprinkling.
Gen. 1:9 Post-millenianism is true.

That's just not how it works...

or

but the Writing did shut up the whole under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ may be given to those believing. (Galatians 3:22)

And having the same spirit of the faith, according to that which hath been written, `I believed, therefore I did speak;' we also do believe, therefore also do we speak; (2 Corinthians 4:13)

having known also that a man is not declared righteous by works of law, if not through the faith of Jesus Christ, also we in Christ Jesus did believe, that we might be declared righteous by the faith of Christ, and not by works of law, wherefore declared righteous by works of law shall be no flesh.' (Galatians 2:16)
 

Tercon

Well-known member
Sure here's a couple:

we by nature Jews, and not sinners of the nations, having known also that a man is not declared righteous by works of law, if not through the faith of Jesus Christ, also we in Christ Jesus did believe, that we might be declared righteous by the faith of Christ, and not by works of law, wherefore declared righteous by works of law shall be no flesh.' (Galatians 2:15-17)

the law, then, [is] against the promises of God? -- let it not be! for if a law was given that was able to make alive, truly by law there would have been the righteousness, but the Writing did shut up the whole under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ may be given to those believing. And before the coming of the faith, under law we were being kept, shut up to the faith about to be revealed, (Galatians 3:21-23)
 
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