Foreknowledge: How Does God Know?

Sketo

Well-known member
One aspect of God’s omniscience is his knowledge of the future. In Scripture God is presented as knowing what will happen. Not just selectively but exhaustively God knows all that will be.

In Isaiah 46:8-10 God presents his knowledge of the future as proof of his deity: “I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me, declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose.’”

Isaiah also presents some fascinating rhetorical questions on this subject: “Who has measured the Spirit of the Lord, or what man shows him his counsel? Whom did he consult, and who made him understand? Who taught him the path of justice, and taught him knowledge, and showed him the way of understanding?” - Isaiah 40:13-14


Even before a word is on my tongue, behold, O LORD, you know it altogether. - Psalm 139:4

Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them. - Psalm 139:16


In all the discussion, on this forum, the question at some point must be asked...

How does God know the future? Or, more to the point, What is the ground of God’s knowledge? How does God know what he knows?
 
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zerinus

Well-known member
One aspect of God’s omniscience is his knowledge of the future. In Scripture God is presented as knowing what will happen. Not just selectively but exhaustively God knows all that will be.

In Isaiah 46:8-10 God presents his knowledge of the future as proof of his deity: “I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me, declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose.’”

Isaiah also presents some fascinating rhetorical questions on this subject: “Who has measured the Spirit of the Lord, or what man shows him his counsel? Whom did he consult, and who made him understand? Who taught him the path of justice, and taught him knowledge, and showed him the way of understanding?” - Isaiah 40:13-14


Even before a word is on my tongue, behold, O LORD, you know it altogether. - Psalm 139:4

Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them. - Psalm 139:16


In all the discussion, on this forum, the question at some point must be asked...

How does God know the future? Or, more to the point, What is the ground of God’s knowledge? How does God know what he knows?
Do we need to know how he does it, in order to believe that he does? I don't know how God created the world in six days, but it doesn't prevent me from believing that he did. In Isaiah God declares:

Isaiah 55:

8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.


It is the height of folly for man to expect to be able to comprehend how God does everything that he does, in order to believe that he does them.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
One aspect of God’s omniscience is his knowledge of the future. In Scripture God is presented as knowing what will happen. Not just selectively but exhaustively God knows all that will be.

In Isaiah 46:8-10 God presents his knowledge of the future as proof of his deity: “I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me, declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose.’”

Isaiah also presents some fascinating rhetorical questions on this subject: “Who has measured the Spirit of the Lord, or what man shows him his counsel? Whom did he consult, and who made him understand? Who taught him the path of justice, and taught him knowledge, and showed him the way of understanding?” - Isaiah 40:13-14


Even before a word is on my tongue, behold, O LORD, you know it altogether. - Psalm 139:4

Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them. - Psalm 139:16


In all the discussion, on this forum, the question at some point must be asked...

How does God know the future? Or, more to the point, What is the ground of God’s knowledge? How does God know what he knows?
His omnipotence

He is God and knows all things

I do not buy the open theist theory that God cannot know what he has not determined
 

TomFL

Well-known member
You forgot the most important...He is omnipresent. That doesn't just mean everywhere now, but everywhere for all time, in all time. He is eternal.
The only problem I see with that is it might indicate God knows by way of observation and so he learns

The idea that God learns is objectionable
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Omniscience ~ by Reverend RV

1st Corinthians 13:9-10 KJV; For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

The Apostle Paul explained to the Church that they were in a time of new Revelation, but they only knew the part that they’ve received; the rest was yet to come. This reminds me of life in general; we know in part. When we were children we knew less than now, as adults we know more, but as we grow we’ll know even more; yet we’re not Omniscient. ~ God is Omniscient; this means he knows everything. Jesus said that he is the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end; he has perfect knowledge of everything that comes to pass. Not only does Omniscience mean that God knows all history but it means that he’s the most intelligent person in existence; he’d have to be to intelligently design all Creation…

Have you ever met a person who thinks he’s a know it all? Are you a know it all? ~ Have you ever told a Lie? What do you call people who Lie? Is Lying bad? Or is Lying only bad when people Lie to you?? Have you stolen anything? You know what to call people that steal, right? This one is easier, you know that theft is wrong since it’s wrong to steal from you. Where does Morality come from? The Bible says that it’s written on our hearts, and Atheists agree with this; they say that Survival of the fittest has written it in our Genes. If God exists, he authored Morality since he’s Omniscient, Omnipotent and Omnipresent. Every Effect has a prior Cause; we’re Moral because God is Moral. ~ These were only two of God’s Ten Commandments, if a good God judged you by his Standard would you be guilty? Would you go to Hell?

A good God would have to keep his Law and send you to Hell; but a good God could make a way for you to be innocent! ~ For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting Life. God laid aside the benefits of his Deity to live as a Man for the purpose of living a Sinless life in our shoes. Jesus Christ is the man and he shed his blood by dying on a Cross so we could be Right with God. He arose from the dead, conquering Death and the Grave. We are Saved by Grace through Faith in the Resurrected Savior Jesus Christ, without submitting meritorious Works in part to be Righteous. Repent of your Sins, Confess Jesus Christ as your Lord God and start going to a Church that will teach you the Bible. ~ Atheists ask, “What would it take for you to stop believing in God?” For me, it’s to Omnisciently know there’s no God; or else it’s too risky. But wait; if I Omnisciently knew there were no God, I would prove that God exists since I’m Omniscient! If my reach Transcended Space and I brought God to me, I’d be Omnipotent. If I could be everywhere and be with God, I’d be Omnipresent. ~ I’d have to know for sure there is no God; for now you can only hope there’s no God…

1 Chronicles 28:9 NASB; "As for you, my son Solomon, know the God of your father, and serve Him with a whole heart and a willing mind; for the LORD searches all hearts, and understands every intent of the thoughts. If you seek Him, He will let you find Him; but if you forsake Him, He will reject you forever.
 

Sketo

Well-known member
Do we need to know how he does it, in order to believe that he does? I don't know how God... but it doesn't prevent me from believing that he did.

It is the height of folly for man to expect to be able to comprehend how God does everything that he does, in order to believe that he does them.

So... You are simply admitting that you don’t know how God knows the future!

And you don’t know
how “foreknowledge” works in these passages...

this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men. - Acts 2:23
 

zerinus

Well-known member
So... You are simply admitting that you don’t know how God knows the future!

And you don’t know
how “foreknowledge” works in these passages...

this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men. - Acts 2:23
I don't know how he created the world in six days either, but it doesn't prevent me from believing that he did. So what is your point?
 

TomFL

Well-known member
So... You are simply admitting that you don’t know how God knows the future!

And you don’t know
how “foreknowledge” works in these passages...

this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men. - Acts 2:23
Do you imagine you are able to explain an infinite God ?
 

Sketo

Well-known member
I do not buy the open theist theory...

Open theism,” also known as “openness theology,” the “openness of God,” and “free will theism,” is an attempt to explain the foreknowledge of God in relationship to the free will of man. The argument of open theism is essentially this: human beings are truly free; if God absolutely knew the future, human beings could not truly be free. Therefore, God does not know absolutely everything about the future. Open theism holds that the future is not knowable. Therefore, God knows everything that can be known, but He does not know the future.


I don’t buy “Open theism” either!

God cannot know what he has not determined

What other way of immutable knowing is there?

Is there a source outside of God that determines God’s knowing?

Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them. - Psalm 139:16

Who wrote the “book”?
 
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TomFL

Well-known member
Open theism,” also known as “openness theology,” the “openness of God,” and “free will theism,” is an attempt to explain the foreknowledge of God in relationship to the free will of man. The argument of open theism is essentially this: human beings are truly free; if God absolutely knew the future, human beings could not truly be free. Therefore, God does not know absolutely everything about the future. Open theism holds that the future is not knowable. Therefore, God knows everything that can be known, but He does not know the future.

I don’t buy “Open theism” either!



Is there a source outside of God that determines God’s knowing?

What other way of actual knowing is there?
Open theism,” also known as “openness theology,” the “openness of God,” and “free will theism,” is an attempt to explain the foreknowledge of God in relationship to the free will of man. The argument of open theism is essentially this: human beings are truly free; if God absolutely knew the future, human beings could not truly be free. Therefore, God does not know absolutely everything about the future. Open theism holds that the future is not knowable. Therefore, God knows everything that can be known, but He does not know the future.

I don’t buy “Open theism” either!



Is there a source outside of God that determines God’s knowing?

What other way of actual knowing is there?
No there is no outside source that determines God's knowing

Let it be known

Your formatting of my comments could be misleading

I stated

I do not buy the open theist theory that God cannot know what he has not determined

when you separated the bolded words from the rest of the sentence
 

Sketo

Well-known member
No there is no outside source that determines God's knowing

Let it be known

Your formatting of my comments could be misleading
Your formatting of your own comment is misleading because “open theism” does not include “God determining” unless you are purposely trying to mislead people!

Open theism,” also known as “openness theology,” the “openness of God,” and “free will theism,” is an attempt to explain the foreknowledge of God in relationship to the free will of man. The argument of open theism is essentially this: human beings are truly free; if God absolutely knew the future, human beings could not truly be free. Therefore, God does not know absolutely everything about the future. Open theism holds that the future is not knowable. Therefore, God knows everything that can be known, but He does not know the future.

I stated

I do not buy the open theist theory that God cannot know what he has not determined

And your “statement” misrepresents “open theism”!

when you separated the bolded words from the rest of the sentence

I was trying to help fix your misrepresentation... but I see now it was intentional!



Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them. - Psalm 139:16

Who wrote the “book”?
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Your formatting of your own comment is misleading because “open theism” does not include “God determining” unless you are purposely trying to mislead people!

Open theism,” also known as “openness theology,” the “openness of God,” and “free will theism,” is an attempt to explain the foreknowledge of God in relationship to the free will of man. The argument of open theism is essentially this: human beings are truly free; if God absolutely knew the future, human beings could not truly be free. Therefore, God does not know absolutely everything about the future. Open theism holds that the future is not knowable. Therefore, God knows everything that can be known, but He does not know the future.



And your “statement” misrepresents “open theism”!



I was trying to help fix your misrepresentation... but I see now it was intentional!



Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them. - Psalm 139:16

Who wrote the “book”?
Wrong

First you ignored how your formatting made it look like I was saying God cannot know what he determined

Second open theism deals with free agents i.e. those not determined

so I misrepresented nothing

again

a free agent is one who is not determined
 

Sketo

Well-known member
No there is no outside source that determines God's knowing

Does God, immutably, know everything you will do?

or

Does God know only what you might do?

Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them. - Psalm 139:16

Who wrote the “book”?
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Does God, immutably, know everything you will do?

or

Does God know only what you might do?

Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them. - Psalm 139:16

Who wrote the “book”?
Everything and every possible thing

He knows it all
 
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