Foreknowledge: How Does God Know?

TomFL

Well-known member
Wrong. Being righteous means being sinless. That means that if they had sinned, they had repented, and their sins had been wiped away. The Bible teaches that sinners who repent, their sins are wiped out, so that they become sinless, as if they had never committed any sins. To be righteous means to be sinless. You can't be righteous and sinful at the same time. That is a self-contradictory statement.
Sorry the righteous which is by faith does not mean you were sinless

Rom. 4:6–9 —ESV
“just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works:
¶ “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered;
blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin.”
¶ Is this blessing then only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? For we say that faith was counted to Abraham as righteousness.”
 

zerinus

Well-known member
Sorry the righteous which is by faith does not mean you were sinless

Rom. 4:6–9 —ESV
“just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works:
¶ “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered;
blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin.”

¶ Is this blessing then only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? For we say that
faith was counted to Abraham as righteousness.”
You are playing a numbers game, and the numbers are on my side, per quotes given. No need to reiterate.
 

zerinus

Well-known member
Galatians 2:14–16 (KJV 1900)
14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews? 15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

1 John 1:8 (KJV 1900)
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.


You could post a billion of such verses but it not prove anyone sinless
You omitted the next verse, verse 9.

1 John 1:

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


Sinners who are “cleansed” are no longer sinners. They are as though they had never committed any sins.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
You omitted the next verse, verse 9.

1 John 1:

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


Sinners who are “cleansed” are no longer sinners. They are as though they had never committed any sins.
It does not help you

It only confirms all are sinners

and their LFW is not able to change that

It is soft or limited
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Rubbish, talking nonsense. Enough answers have been given. No further comment required.
It does not help you

It only confirms all are sinners

and their LFW is not able to change that


It is soft or limited

Are you sinless ?

Why not ?
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
You omitted the next verse, verse 9.

1 John 1:

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


Sinners who are “cleansed” are no longer sinners. They are as though they had never committed any sins.

That is correct. Those who confess they now have sin are those whose sins are not washed away. They still have them and are living in the filthy of their sin.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Agreed!

Agreed... but God does not require a philosophically created “middle knowledge”, as Tom posits, as an explination for how He “knows”.

He knows without the necessity of a “3rd knowledge” created!

Do you agree?


Duh middle knowledge is not an explanation but an affirmation God know everything

In denying it you limit God's omniscience

and reduce it to the limit imposed by open theism
 

TomFL

Well-known member
No reason to continue beating a dead horse... Start reading here... again...

Post 231
As stated

middle knowledge is not an explanation but an affirmation God know everything

In denying it you limit God's omniscience

and reduce it to the limit imposed by open theism

Your position was demolished when you flipped from absolute determinism to permission while attempting to deny God's ability to to know that which he has not determined

There is no way God could have used permission regarding a specific act in his decree without knowing what he would permit
 

Sketo

Well-known member
In denying it you limit God's omniscience

and reduce it to the limit imposed by open theism

As previously answered...

Gods “knowing” being determined by an internalsource does not lend support to “open theism”!

On the contrary...

External source, i.e. “free choice” creature = “open theism”

Your god is “open” to knowledge that is externally determined!

as stated

No reason to continue beating a dead horse... Start reading here... again...


Post 231
 

Sketo

Well-known member
You problem is you posited permission

Permission assumes you know the action by another that you permit

Yes God knows what his meticulously designed creatures will certainly do in any situation that God also meticulously creates because Act 15:18 says...

Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.”... and this includes his work of knitting together every individual creature in the womb!

For you formed my inward parts; you knitted me together in my mother's womb. I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made. Wonderful are your works; my soul knows it very well. - Psalm 139:13-14

God knows what a fallen creature will certainly do because God designed the creature to function a certain way in the fallen state.(ROM 5:19) Now because of Gods meticulous design of his creature he can allow him to function in this fallen state, exactly as designed to do, or he can intervene and cause his creature to function differently! The amazing Grace of regeneration is one of these possible ways of intervention. Either way the outcome is, from beginning to end, meticulously determined by God!

God “has known” all of his works from eternity past and that is why God is omniscient!

Gods “foreknowledge” is God knowing his work in the meticulous design of Lucifer, Adam, Eve, The Garden of Eden, The Tree of Life, The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, the timing and placement of all of them together ...“before” he works them!

Act 15:18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

All of this, meticulous orchestration, was what shaped Gods foreknowledge!

God knew Lucifers strengths and weaknesses because he designed him!
God knew Adams weaknesses because he designed him!
God knew Eves weaknesses because he designed her!
God knew the definite outcome when allowing Satan into the Garden!
God knew the consequences of the fall because he designed the consequences! (see Rom 5:18-19)

Adam played his part precisely how God designed him to play his part!

There was no “possibility” of any other outcome because God is in control... not man!



God “foreknows” because...“Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.” - Acts 15:18

Isa 14:24 The LORD of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, so shall it stand:

Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:


Psa 33:11 The counsel of the LORD standeth for ever, the thoughts of his heart to all generations.

Psa 115:3 But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.

Psa 135:6 Whatsoever the LORD pleased, that did he in heaven, and in earth, in the seas, and all deep places.


Deu 32:39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.

1Sa 2:6-8 The LORD killeth, and maketh alive: he bringeth down to the grave, and bringeth up. The LORD maketh poor, and maketh rich: he bringeth low, and lifteth up. He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the LORD'S, and he hath set the world upon them.

Job 9:12 Behold, he taketh away, who can hinder him? who will say unto him, What doest thou?
 
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TomFL

Well-known member
Yes God knows what his meticulously designed creatures will certainly do in any situation that God also meticulously creates because Act 15:18 says...


With that statement you have rejected your former premises

Meticulous determination of all things - denied

God's inability to know what he has not determined - denied

Good job
 

Iconoclast

Active member
Not really

Funny those refutations do not appear here

Nothing posted has come anywhere near refuting the analysis given of Rom 8:28. 29

It has been my experience what some see as a refutation is merely the beliefs of a pre-existing theology
Your hero Leighton posted under the name Skandelon on Baptistboard...look in the archives...he was refuted daily as you are here.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Your hero Leighton posted under the name Skandelon on Baptistboard...look in the archives...he was refuted daily as you are here.
I posted scripture it was not refuted

Posting an alternate opinion without proof does not qualify as proof of anything but an alternate opinion

The same author, in the same book, using the same word in the the same phrase applied it to those living in Elias time

You can't refute that

Deal with scripture not persons
 

Iconoclast

Active member
I posted scripture it was not refuted

Posting an alternate opinion without proof does not qualify as proof of anything but an alternate opinion

The same author, in the same book, using the same word in the the same phrase applied it to those living in Elias time

You can't refute that

Deal with scripture not persons
Where did you post this irrefutable proof? what post#
 
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