Carbon
Well-known member
It's pretty clear and obvious in scripture that foreknowledge in Romans 8:29 cannot have reference to foreseen faith, good works or a sinners response to the gospel call.
Arminianism is really off the mark on this one.
Faith cannot be the cause of foreknowledge because foreknowledge is before predestination, and faith is the effect of predestination.
48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed. Acts 13.
It cannot even be meant as foreknowledge of good works, because good works are the effect of predestination as well.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. Eph 2.
It cannot be about our concurrence with the external call, but upon God's purpose and grace, given to us in Christ before the world began.
9 who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began, 2 Tim 1.
So, foreknowledge is meant as I have shown, the love of God towards those whom He predestinates to be saved through Jesus Christ. All those who are called by God are foreknown to Him, that is, they are the objects of His eternal love.
the Lord appeared to him from far away.
I have loved you with an everlasting love;
therefore I have continued my faithfulness to you. Jer 31:3.
I'm not saying that God does not foresee faith, of course He does, He see all things.
But of course, the only faith He sees in the faith that He Himself creates.
3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” 4 Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.” John 3.
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, Eph 2.
To believe differently, that's your choice. To prove it in your Arminian view, use scripture, and good luck.
29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified. Romans 8.
Arminianism is really off the mark on this one.
Faith cannot be the cause of foreknowledge because foreknowledge is before predestination, and faith is the effect of predestination.
48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed. Acts 13.
It cannot even be meant as foreknowledge of good works, because good works are the effect of predestination as well.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. Eph 2.
It cannot be about our concurrence with the external call, but upon God's purpose and grace, given to us in Christ before the world began.
9 who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began, 2 Tim 1.
So, foreknowledge is meant as I have shown, the love of God towards those whom He predestinates to be saved through Jesus Christ. All those who are called by God are foreknown to Him, that is, they are the objects of His eternal love.
the Lord appeared to him from far away.
I have loved you with an everlasting love;
therefore I have continued my faithfulness to you. Jer 31:3.
I'm not saying that God does not foresee faith, of course He does, He see all things.
But of course, the only faith He sees in the faith that He Himself creates.
3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” 4 Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.” John 3.
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, Eph 2.
To believe differently, that's your choice. To prove it in your Arminian view, use scripture, and good luck.
29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified. Romans 8.
